Karaoke Forums

the current problem is that you can not be proactive and prove it until you are sued.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I get that, but I'm still not worried, or for this matter feel threatened. I do everything by the books. Let them come.

the point is we already have one on here who i caught up in the suit and they do not offer audit as a way out (even being odb as he claims) so he has had to hire a lwayer.
PR comes to sue you for not having authorization to media shift (your CB cert is expired) you will have no choice but to hire a lawyer. how much will that cost you?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Yes there lies the rub even if you are legal you can be caught up in the net, accused and then the burden of proving your innocence falls on the host and also the legal cost. That is why buying the insurance offered by the manus becomes attractive to avoid loss of income, interruption of your enterprise and the damage it causes your professional reputation. It is this threat of tying up your business that leverages the host to buy product he or she would choose otherwise not to do. It is using the legal process to shape a persons' buying habits. After all "suits drive sales".

Paradigm,

It is always a good idea to consult with an attorney when named in/threatened with a lawsuit . That is what we did. In less than the 15 minutes the IP lawyer we saw advised us to work quickly to show that we did own every disc 1-1. We just chatted about generalities for the rest of the hour.(we chat upon occasion as we both follow these cases)

I do not know the KJ in question.

I personally tried to help 3 in our local area that swore up and down they were 1-1 (1 disc based) only to later have the truth exposed. (the supposed ODB host had nothing but copies with bad sticker labels and it turned out she was full aware they were copies because she had SOLD the originals OOPs I gave them the wrong ones was not an accepted excuse).The 2 computer based host had less than 300 discs to cover the 10,000 plus songs in their books.

While I don't paint anyone a pirate unless they have told me directly they were, I now have a healthy amount of skepticism for those claiming to be legitimate. We can sit back and see if this person is dropped from the lawsuit....see if it was with or without prejudice and what the legal documentation shows. I personally can not see PR continuing a case against ANYONE and risking the entire path of future legal battles without a TON of proof.

When I have been able to confirm myself that a ODB host was caught in a net...I did everything in and out of my power to assist.

edited for spelling issues

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Hire a lawyer Athena? At the cost of lawyer's and the uncertain outcome of trials, isn't it more practical just to cave in and buy the various insurance products being peddled by SC and PR/WWD/CB/DTE? Wouldn't it be better to be proactive as you say and buy them off? Then you don't even have to have an audit since you will be leasing GEM or under the Cloud. You will be placed on that special list and no one will bother you as long as they get their cut.

And I will repeat "It is always a good idea to consult with an attorney when named in/threatened with a lawsuit".

The $250 we paid for our consultation was worth every red penny. YES it is better to be provactive...reactive people tend to make rash decisions.

I do not use the cloud or have a gem series. I do not need the products however I do see the need for some people dependent on their circumstances.( I do purchase a few tracks from DTE that are not available elsewhere).

If I had had the opportunity to purchase 6000 quality most desired tracks when I started The Gem would have been high on my list (I WISH I paid as little per track and I squeeze a nickle till the buffalo farts).

If I had the option to subscribe to a service like the cloud when I was starting out, to allow me time to buy an acceptable library. I may have used that as well.

So I will continue to advise anyone who will listen to be proactive...contact the manus...get permission to media-shift....get audited before you are named and DONT STEAL YOUR MUSIC

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

your missing my point.... this guy and anyone sued by PR has no choice. so far they do not offer audits preemptively, they are not responding to his requests for audit and was forced to hire an attorney even though there was o other way. change your situation to SC not having the audit system in place, sued you for not doing what they don't offer (PR does not offer audits), then not allowing you to prove 1:1 (PR is not allowing him to do that), and then your consultation is just the beginning and must become a retainer.
you paid for not doing what SC had on the table (preemptive audit) that makes sense.
he is paying for not doing what is NOT even available (preemptive audit) big difference.
it's like Microsoft suing you for not getting a Microsoft Commercial Certificate to do use Windows in a business. They do not offer such a thing but are suing you for not doing it.


i am totally stealing this as i almost spit soda all over my keyboard


i agree, but don't confuse not following SC's method with stealing. i hate that part.
and DTE is offering audits if you want, it has already been stated that no one will be forced to do it. that leave SC as the lone manu who can give you audits.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Glad you like the statement and feel free to adopt it.

DTE has stated they there will be audits for CB and DTE products. Now while I can see your point about pre-emptive audits not being available since CB went under, they are already taking names and readying audits now.

Preemptive audits are ALL voluntary, They do however come with a covenant not to sue (for the product audited). So SC, DTE and CB will have audits available for those who want them

Just to make it EXTRA clear when I say Don't steal your music I mean just that don't steal....buy your tracks...it has nothing to do with ANY manufacture

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

and how are they doing that?


and how could i have gotten a preemptive audit from PRLLC? they never offered it and still do not though they are suing for not getting one.


i agree.....shifting to HD is not stealing. i paid for every track i have and only use one copy. i have stolen nothing but i can easily get sued by PRLLC and have to hire a lawyer because they do not offer any other method out.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Yes you can protect yourself from problems with PR as Gretchen has stated they are going to be using the same outside contractor to do audits for both DTE and CB material, PM Gretchen to get yourself on the list.

Yes there will be a fee....yes it will need to be paid on a semi-regular basis....yes it is sad that it has come to be needed.

Did you ever get audited with CB when they were available ? I really do not remember,,,our certification (we had renewed shortly before CB went under) just recently expired and I feel no worries about using what we had then and the large number of discs we added during the going out of business sales.

I have received written permission from 5 other companies to media shift in a 1-1 manner....some just required asking for and others wanted affidavits.....So all in all I have 7 companies so far that I do not have to worry about...can they come back at anytime and ask me to show proof ? yes...can they charge me for those audits ? yes....Is it/was it a pain in the a$$ to track down the proper people to even ask for permission.....YES. But in my opinion very worthwile.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I think the point that is being missed here is that there is no need for all of this drama. If you want to stay in business and not have to worry about being named in a legal lawsuit all you have to do is pay off the only two manus on the planet that are currently demanding a pay off. It is a bribe to have them allow you to continue in business. In the case of SC it's a large lump sum, with a small renewal. In the case of CB/DTE it is a subscription that requires monthly installments. Once you make your involuntary contribution you are placed on a list and the dogs are called off. Then they go on to the next mark. If everyone just rolls over it would make this so called fight against piracy go that much smoother. The only way the manus can be sure you are ok is for them to get this pay off money. When the legal hosts get tired of being audited by these manus on a yearly basis or bi-yearly with the fees and all, they to will eventually pay off the manus. The host becomes that little farmer in Vietnam that has to pay bribes to the various local civil servants and warlords until he has no rice to sell at market. Hurray for the land of the free.

that is an absolute untruth Lone Ranger.

You can avoid lawsuits by

A. Playing from original manufactures discs (as many did for YEARS and some still do)
B. Get permission from the Manufactures to media shift(yes some require audits)
C. Buy/rent/subscribe to the products you listed.

There are options but they all require that the KJ do something.

Please stop the "spins" that are out and out fabrications of your own mind...this "troll" side of you is very unbecoming and just makes you look completely out of touch with the real world.

Karaoke is a business and as with any business there are costs and time involved.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

8 One thing is for sure your slice of Florida is nothing like California it might as well be the other side of the Moon. I just wonder who is really out of touch. Playing from the original manus discs is no guarantee that you won't get caught up in a mass suit by the manus. The investigations if that is what you want to call them so far have been less than through. Operators using their original discs are still named in these mass suits, and required to spend thousands of dollars to clear themselves. Get permission from manus currently only two such manus require permission. One of these has no means of auditing as of today right now. So the only for sure way to make sure you are not sued at least by these two is to pay them off Athena. Then even you can sleep at night and not have to bug the publishers.

Yes the manus are so evil for wanting to get paid so you can DUPLICATE their product. How many manus in other industries allow you to DUPLICATE their products for free or close to free. Why is it people think because you can DUPLICATE something with a computer that you should be able to do so without compensating for it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I have no problem with the manus getting paid tim, the fair retail value of their stolen product is what they are entitled to, even down in Florida, that award was upheld on appeal. If you have an original and are 1:1 compliant then by all means you can shift it, since you have not cost the manu any money, as long as you stick to one rig one operator. The problem I have is the use of the legal system to try and compel business's to adopt a product in order to avoid being named in a legal action. That is what this is all about, they know most hosts can't afford to have to defend against these charges even if they are baseless. So the practical thing to do if you want to stay in business is to pay them off. That is all this is pay to play.

No....... Lone Ranger....ANOTHER set of absolute untruths.

There are AT LEAST 3 ways to avoid being sued.

No disc based host has ever had to pay "thousands of dollars" to clear themselves.

Even you can't really truly believe this garbage you are spewing...I know you are more intelligent than these posts indicate. This anti-manu bigotry is unbecoming anyone.

Every business is pay to play Lone Ranger,,,there is NO business that does not require payment of some sort for your materials.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

SC has never required, or even asked, any defendant who could demonstrate 1:1 correspondence to buy additional tracks as a condition of settlement. Every such defendant has been offered an outright dismissal.

SC does require defendants who cannot show that, and are therefore pirates, either to buy product, or to pay a penalty and destroy the pirated product, or to get out of the business entirely.

Beyond that, if you don't want to get sued, you've got three options: use the product as intended (as original discs), get permission to shift, or don't use the product at all.

The disc based hosts have been named in a suits and as you say if you are named you have to retain counsel, that costs money. While neither of us know the amount they paid they still had to pay something Athena. I don't know what I find more distasteful being a anti-manu bigot or having to carry water for the manus all the time. They really don't need any help Athena they do have Jim and Insane the dynamic duo. The way you always defend the manus and hardly ever question their actions causes me sometimes to take pause since I know you are more intelligent than the posts indicate.

P.S. While it is true most business have to pay to stay in business, in the case of karaoke music a person should just have to pay once and be done with it. Not have the manu coming back on a regular basis demanding more payment.