Karaoke Forums

I was booked six nights a week a few months ago, and I am currently at four nights. I have been out talking to bars in the area, and there is interest with some bars in booking, but what I keep finding time and time again are bars insisting they wont pay any more than $75 - $100 for a show. Needless to say, I haven't taken any of them...yet.

To help explain, I am in Muskegon Michigan. Michigan is at 90% of the income per capita and family income of the national average. Muskegon is literally at half the national average. Most people in this town work for minimum wage. Most of the factories have left town.

The market seems to be much different now than it was six years ago when I started. Even the longest running KJ in town who was working seven nights a week at that time is down to one bar two nights a week. A lot of local competition that was around then no longer have shows and a several bars have closed their doors.

I am to the point now where I plan on looking at towns that are 30+ miles away to book to get that elusive $150 show. I have already talked to a couple of bars that far out and the story is the same for what they expect to pay. Even if I can get a show for $150 that far out, driving with a trailer about 80 miles round trip will cost me at least $30 in gas.

Are people seeing trends like this in other places around the country? Has the market become so saturated that it is nearly impossible to book a show for $150 now? I am thinking pirate shows may be a big part of the blame, taking shows at these low rates, but a big part of it may be the market where I live. Perhaps it is time to move.

To give an idea of just how bad it is over here, at the start of the year I was spending $1000/m in radio ads to promote shows and maybe book some private events. I got absolutely nothing out of it. No new faces at shows. No new bookings. No inquiries about private parties. Zero results. During this advertising I actually LOST 3 shows for low attendance. After four months I quit advertising.

Even with the few inquiries I have had recently about doing private parties people balk when I tell them $300 for a party. They tell me for that price they will just book a band. Well, go ahead, if you can find a band to work for that cheap.

My original goal was to build a business that would eventually run 3 systems. With the new cloud service and media pro dive it makes it even easier, but finding shows willing to pay $150 is getting harder and harder. If I want to continue working in this industry, I may need to move, or just be willing to work for less. At this point, I absolutely refuse to work for less than $100, and I am trying to avoid that but I may have to give in.

I won't work for less than $150 for a 4 hour gig.
I spend exactly $80/mo on a print ad for one club.
The rest of my marketing is Yelp, Facebook, Twitter, word of mouth.
Private gigs start at $300 for a 4 hour run.

I am in Seattle though which is a high income, high population area.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

It's hard to make more than $150 at bars where I live, but there are a couple kjs that are doing it, although not earning much more than $150. Sometimes I fill in for other kjs in my area and I always charge $200 to fill in, and I get it.

I refuse to kj for $100 or less. $150 minimum for me. That's just where I draw the line. Gotta draw it somewhere or else it will just continue to plummet.

The casino gig I do on Fridays pays me $450 a night, although I have to drive 90 miles to get there. So you subtract $50 for gas and I still come home with $400 for a 4 hour gig. I believe that gig is a rare exception and I am so thankful to have it. The only reason I've been able to get it and keep it for so long (2 years straight now) is because that particular casino is located way out in the boondocks and they simply don't know anyone else in the area who is as good as me. They went through several kjs before they hired me and they hated every last one of 'em.

The bottom line is this:
If you can make the bar some money, they will hire you and pay you. Sometimes it's a crap shoot. Sometimes you get lucky and your show takes off. Sometimes it seems like you do everything right, but still can't build up a following of regulars and the bar just simply can't afford you. It's just business.

If you can build a following and make the bar some money, chances are they will keep you.

I was offered a Wed night gig last year. I posted in here about it, but I turned it down because the owner wanted to pay me on a percentage basis. The bar is right down the street from me and it would have been a really good fit for me.

Anyway, a friend of mine went in there 3 weeks ago and negotiated a $150 a night trial basis for 4 weeks. I went in there on his first and second night there. It wasn't packed, but he had a very decent amount of people in there and a rotation list of around 15 singers both nights. So far, he's doing a good job! If he keeps it up and keeps building the momentum, I think he'll have a permanent home there. I am glad for him and wish him all the best because he went in there, negotiated his price, talked to many people from his other shows and got people in there. Mind you, this place was DEAD on Weds before he got there.

Best of luck to you.

we do not move our equipment for less than 150 per show (that is lowest rate with bookings more than 1 night a week no weekends). The venue owners here were trained to pay less than 100 for even weekends but we held to our pricing. We do now travel upto 90 mins each way for some of our highest paid shows (over 300 per) however. Things are finally improving in this area.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

i'm in a small community....
so my lowball rate for bars is $125, hard to get but I really don't need the work....

friends rate for DJ/Karaoke at a wedding/party is $200 for 3/hrs then $50/hr after the that. and i'll do whatever they need. friends of friends don't get the friends rate.

everyone else for weddings/parties it's $250/3hrs - just music. and then up from there depending what they want. karaoke, lights, MC-ing and whatever else they want.

family that's a play it by ear, depends if I like that part of the family or not, .

if I were you I would call some of the dj services and feel them out for pricing to get an idea what the going rates in your neck of the woods are.


and I never work for a percentage of the bar take for the night.....
you will get screwed everytime!!!!!!!

_________________
It's all good!

My first show was a percentage gig and I was royally screwed. Never again. I was never shown the Z tapes yet the bar claimed to never make more than about $600, when every week the place was packed with high end clientele that drove jags and mercedes. The place is under new ownership now, and I am considering going back to throw a bid in. I never considered the idea of a casino. There is one about 60 miles from me. For the right price, I would book it. Hell, I would love to get $300 for a show like that!

you could in a contract require them to show/or give you a copy the z report from all tills, if not then it's a flat fee for the night.

and I recommend doing a contract to cover your (@$%&#!) anyways!

_________________
It's all good!

I work in ski country Colorado, up in the Rocky Mountains. It is "rural" with a tourist/international aspect that cannot be ignored, but also presents a unique opportunity to cater to "locals" and in turn, entice the tourists and travelers with a karaoke show that as a singer put it Friday night "...big city karaoke in a small town."

Contract. This is an absolute requirement. Everything must be spelled out and any individual who will be operating under or authorized to perform under that contract must read and comprehend the details and specific clauses. This is especially true of a venue that has high turnover in the manager positions or where the owner (presumably the contract signator) is not on the premises during/after the show.

Minimum fee $150 or 15% of sales from show start to close. It is imperative that the KJ/Host be provided with proof of the sales numbers by an authorized staff member.

Raised the minimum to $200 a couple of years ago.

Setting sales records on Friday and Monday nights. Two different towns 75-100 miles apart).

Set a record last Monday with 50 singers and $4200 in sales. I have my copy of the register sales report (z-tape). When this place started karaoke, we were bringing in about $1000 a night in sales and after just a few weeks it took off like a rocket. And this is the "off" season for ski country.

In this particular mountain ski town and they have karaoke in a venue that I established back in 2010. I left when one of the managing partners and I had a personality conflict (I butt heads with mean people). They've gone through 2 or 3 crap-i-oke hosts and from what I have been told, they aren't doing very well at all. I have people coming to my show that tell me that the other guy just added 6000 songs (did he license a GEM?) to his karaoke list, but they are still coming to my show.

Private gigs are $100 per hour, minimum 3 hours of "showtime". I add $50 for gas/travel if the private gig is more than 100 miles round-trip. I only do a few privates per year at an average of $500 per. They consist of mostly karaoke with a little DJ mixed in as requested.

Karaoke Hosting is what I do for a living. My only other "job" is working with The Youth Foundation. They are an organization that provides after school educational and enrichment opportunities to grade 1-8 kids. I give them a "karaoke class" at 2-3 (4-6 sessions) schools each week during the school year. The pay is hourly, but I can charge extra time for travel and set-up/break-down. This results in extra income to be the equivalent of one more show each week. The big plus is that I get to karaoke with the kids... grooming future generations of singers for my shows They've even introduced me to new artists and songs - Radio Active by Imagine Dragons is one that I sing at my shows...

To paraphrase Brian A's sig: This is an awesome way to make a living.

_________________
Never the same show twice!

Most bars won't show the Z tape. My current one won't and have worked for several in the past - mostly chain establishments.
Most casino places that have entertainment - you WILL have to monitor language and not allow songs with language (or make sure the singers will censor themselves). Most of the casinos around here anyway, even the bands aren't allowed to drink or have any vulgarity/language in their shows.

As far as pricing, I sold off my mobile systems because club work wouldn't bear more than $100 a show anymore. I could have kept doing private shows, but even those were starting to drop.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I see a lot of people post about huge bar sales and driving distances for shows. The reality is MOST bars (at least the ones I have come across) do not bring in well over $1000 a night. The large establishments will, or ones that have a large base of regulars that pack the place, but that seems to be the exception to the rule here. They exist, but are few and far between. In that kind of market, should we just accept the fact that we wont be able to get $150 for a show? Would $100 be worth taking for these bars? In cases for multi-rigging, there is no point considering the cost of gear, cloud/second set of music, and paying a host $60/show. There would be almost no profit there.

I make $200 for 4 hr gig in KANSAS..anything less I wont even discuss..people want something for nothing ...don't let them tell you what they are going to pay you..set your price and stick to your guns..

I took $100 for the show I am currently doing. It's my first true show, where I am not the fill-in. Funny thing is my fill-in show I make $250 for the night. My buddy got that show before the recession, so they never changed his rate. He's been very lucky that way.

But, yes I took the show $100 per night. I do Wednesday and Friday. The owner wanted to give me $75, because that is what she paid her old guy, who was semi-retired. I originally told her $150 for weeknights, $200 for weekends. I settled for $100 and told her I wouldn't go lower. She took it.

I talked to my family about it, and we all agreed that, number one it's better than not making that money, number two I can get my name out there and get known past my occasional fill-ins.

When the time comes, I can branch out, get more shows and hopefully more pay. For now, it helps my wallet, I am building my song collection, and I am about to start looking around for lighting, and stuff to enhance the show. Meanwhile, I also do small parties and small weddings. I won't do massive halls, yet, because I don't have enough equipment for that, and I am not going to pretend that I do. I am quite honest with people who ask me to do weddings.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

When I got my first weekly show back in '09, I also agreed to a $100 fee. I cut my teeth and learned a lot on that gig, however; I was never able to build momentum and sales there and my pay eventually went from $100 to $60. The bar owner was willing to let me keep that gig indefinitely at $60, but after about 8 months of it, I quit. I quit because I didn't see a future there and I wanted to make more money as I felt my skills were getting better each week.

So I can say that I do understand your willingness to take a $100 weekly gig. At this point in my KJ career, I will never go that low again. I feel that I have too much experience to accept a rate that low these days. Plus, once you agree to a rate, you will NEVER see a pay increase there, ever.

This is true at the casino where I host karaoke. They don't want any swearing on the mic. The singers can drink because I host it inside the lounge of the casino and they sell alcohol there.

So far it hasn't been too difficult with the swearing on the mic. Occasionally, a singer will blurt out a cuss word, but it may be something like "@ss" or "damn" or something like that. Nothing major. There have been times where I have had to reject a singer's song choice. Like Afroman's "Colt 45." There is no way I can allow that song to be sung at the casino. So yeah, I have to monitor the songs on that gig, but like I said, so far it hasn't been too difficult.

There are some things I have chosen not to compromise on and one of those is freedom of speech in music. My song books spell out the "bad" words instead of using ****. I try very hard to not take regular gigs where there is an explicit "do not cuss" policy because I feel that if an artist wrote a song with language in it that they intended for it to be sung the way they wrote it.

Private events or one-off engagements are different though I always explain to the point-of-contact that my books are not censored.

Basically I believe that if a singer chooses to censor themselves, that is their choice. But I am not going to impose censorship upon them.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

I am probably in an area like you describe. At the place I started out, I had a $900 till one night and that was considered cause for a celebration. $400 tills were more the norm. People in areas that are not as hard hit will never be able to comprehend it.

I started out at $100 at one of those places and now am up to $150 but I have to travel an hour to get it. It just isn't there locally. I could probably do better by travelling a bit further to one of the large cities but when I weigh the gas, the extra business licenses and being out alone late at night in a more dangerous area it hasn't seemed worth it yet. It is also harder to build a show from afar. It seems easier when you can become one of the gang.

#1: In 2012, the median household income was $50,502, while the median household income in Muskegon, MI was $37,626, or 74.5% the national average. That is LITERALLY about 2/3, not 1/2. It does suck, and I feel for you, but last I checked this is the USA and you are free to live whereever you want so.......

#2: Novel idea, if it sucks so bad there, MOVE! No offense, but every day you stay there, you are accepting your circumstances. If you are looking for a certain economic reality in your life, and the economics of that town aren't matching, there are 19,355 incorporated cities in the United States. Find one with a better economy. I'm in the Tampa Bay, FL market, and make $175 a night for my karaoke show. I also do about 10-12 private parties a year at an average of about $100/hr. and 15+ weddings a year at an average of about $125-150/hr. I TURN DOWN about 20-25 gigs a year because I have a day job and value my free time. If that sounds appealing, I would be willing to bet there are about 40-50 cities in the US that are similar. Muskegon, MI is just not one of them.

Seriously, before anyone goes nuts, I truely wish you the best of luck. However, no one's going to do it for you. You seem to describe that you are wallowing in a big pile of sh*t that is Muskegon, MI, and I'm just suggesting that you gotta get out of the sh*t yourself, and not expect the circumstances to organically change or for anyone else to fix it for you! Step 1, get out of the sh*t!

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

100% agree. I wont even unpack for less than $200.

I charge $100 an hour, three hour minimum for a private party (+ $50 for gas if distant). Recurring weekly bar gigs are $200 minimum.

The gigs are out there, you just have to cultivate them. Did an $800 annual party two weeks ago, plus got a $150 tip and a "See ya next year!" at the end of the night.

Sometimes people can't just pick up and go--they own a house they can't sell or rent out, other family members have obligations there--many reasons. He just asked how it was in other areas.

Singers can drink of course, it the entertainment that cannot - ie bands, dj's, karaoke hosts, etc.
If I had a gig like this i'd just go through the book and pull all the songs with swearing for that gig. These are the shows that typically PAY what you ask.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!