Karaoke Forums

Paradigm, I've answered that many times over the months. AVLA cannot cover CDGs due to the SYNC RIGHTS.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Well, if you're not using it, then maybe you could sell the car to a "Chop Shop." OH WAIT!!! That could be the reason why you stole that car in the first place.


WOW!!!! I am so glad that we have a Corporate representative here from both SC and PR, who can tell us exactly what their financial statements reflect. It's soooo refreshing to talk to someone who represents these companies, and is willing to give us this confidential information. Keep up the good work on reporting their daily stats to us Lone Ranger. Oh, and by the way, are there any openings in the company for new hires?

If you can figure a way to chop up a hard drive and sell it cue I would love to hear how you are going to do that. We were talking about stealing an item to gain some type of advantage, if there is no advantage, there is no reason to steal it in the first place. It stands to reason if the ultimate goal of the two manus engaged in this legal process is to somehow use this process to boost sales, boycotting their products will not serve their ultimate goal. As far as the status of these companies is concerned CB has already collapsed, and has come back as some kind of Frankenstein monster sewed up from the parts of three companies, DTE, PR, and now WWD. SC for whatever reason is hanging on barely, they are forced to continue to license rehashed material on the GEM series. How much longer they can continue to do this is anybody's guess, once they have exhausted their supply, it is not sure if they can obtain licensing to make more. The publisher's are probably not happy about the way Sound Choice licensed GEM in the UK and licensed it here for use by their customers, before the restrictions went into effect. The legal process is expensive and if all that can be recovered by the manus is the fair market value of the stolen product, that would mean the process itself is not cost effective. The only way to make it cost effective is to sell product. Even by the admission of the manus at the summit, the legal process is a failure. Today there are more illegal hosts than when the legal process was started. The manus have shifted gears and have gone after the venues and large entertainment companies since this is where the deep pockets are. The only single rig operators they are going to make any money on is the ones who pay them off. Still 90 to 95% of the industry is illegal at the current rate of recovery, this matter should be cleared up in 100 years, I doubt if either manu will be around I know I won't be.

And you brought up the comparison of stealing a Car vs stealing Song Tracks.Just because you might steal a car, doesn't mean you have to be driving it. VERY POOR comparison.

Another example of a point I have tried to make on here from time to time: As a rule, analogies SUCK.....

The analogy might suck but the fact remains there is no point in stealing an item if there is no advantage to the thief. There is no point to pirating the karaoke material unless it is going to be used in the show. A pirate is going to obtain it just to say he has it, I think not. That by boycotting the legal process manus product you are defeating their main goal increased sales.

I disagree. Lots of pirates have 250,000 - 500,000 tracks. We can argue about how intelligent pirates are, but even the stupidest person knows they will never use 95% of those tracks. They download them just so they can say "I have a bajillion tracks". Besides, it is all automated. The pirates can effectively click "go", and obtain every karaoke track ever released. It is blind piracy - just grab it all.

-Chris

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-Chris

So the whole purpose of having material is to say I have the most tracks? Being professional hosts we know the most you are going to use in a night is somewhere between 60 to 75 tracks. Most legal hosts that have been in the business anytime have between 10,000 to 25,000 tracks. If a host does have a bajillion tracks how many are seven eight versions of the same label? I have never had a venue owner ask me how many tracks I have, I just let them see my song book and they seemed satisfied. If it is blind piracy that explains why around 95% of the hosts are illegal. If the illegal host just hast to grab it all, it further demonstrates just how ineffective the legal process has been a combating piracy. All the tracks you need for an evening is 60 to 75, and if the patrons use their own disc even less. The trick is having the tracks that are going to be requested, that is all you really need not a bajillion.

Al I was showing was that you are wrong about "There is no point to pirating the karaoke material unless it is going to be used in the show. A pirate is going to obtain it just to say he has it, I think not."

You know....you could save yourself a lot of typing by using the cut and paste feature. You haven't said anything new or different in months.

-Chris

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-Chris

How many home users pirate material that don't use it anywhere else.

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Home users do pirate and think they aren't harming anyone because they don't use it in a show. Yet it is still potential sales lost even if they wouldn't have bought all 500,000 songs that they stole.

Then you get the crossover when they start having their own parties at home. It used to be said that it was also harmless because they were just practicing for when they went out. I used to have someone who tried to convince me it was helping karaoke shows because it kept up their interest. Except when they started having their parties on the same nights of shows......or used them to befriend singers before starting shows of their own.

There is a guy in the town who thinks his pirated hard drive isn't hurting anyone as he just uses it for home parties. Except he is also offering free nights to venues where I have shows. He is going for off nights but it still has the potential to dilute out people's money. He doesn't think he is harming anyone as he isn't charging. He sees it as helping out the bar.

Pirates use the number of songs as a marketing ploy. People can sing any song they can think of without having to wait a week for it to come in--instant gratification. The person next door with less just isn't as karaoke savvy as they are--they don't know where to find songs or how to get them like the "more experienced and connected" pirate host. They try to make the other host look like a stupid sucker for being legal. If an artist is on the no fly list then it is especially a problem to explain. I might have to wait for an EBay listing to find some rare songs but the pirate "who knows more" has them instantly off the internet.

They also tell singers that anyone is who is for being legal just wants to take away the singer's ability to sing what they want when they want and also wants the singer to have to wait longer to sing than if there is a show at every bar. I have also heard the singers say that legal hosts want to take away their home parties. So the home hard drive can be a bit of a public relations hassle also.

I thought the home pirate was no threat to the legal host as long as he stayed at home. It is when they want to take their hobby and make some money with it, that they become an issue with professional hosts. Even the manus have written off the home pirates, though that is where the bulk of their losses has occurred. It would be too difficult to go after these home abusers. Not to mention the PR black eye it would give the manus attempting this. Much like the publishers got when they tried to go after the home down loaders of regular music tracks.

You know....you could save yourself a lot of typing by using the cut and paste feature. You haven't said anything new or different in months.

-Chris[/quote]

Maybe I don't say anything new because really nothing new has happened concerning this industry in the last couple of years. We are still mired in this constant war between the two manus using the legal process and the illegal hosts. There has not been really anything done significantly as far as really solving the problem. This could continue for years or until the manus throw in the towel. Throwing in the towel might be better for the industry Chris, since you have even thought the legal process could be hurting hosts. Convincing venues not to risk having karaoke. With just a couple of months left this whole problem will still be raging on after I no longer host. With no real solution insight.

When I first mentioned home parties a little over a year ago, most hosts told me they were no threat to commercial karaoke in a bar venue setting. That singers still needed the thrill of an audience and that home parties would never be a viable replacement. You are right L&L the home users do represent a significant amount of lost revenue for the manus. They are also a bigger potential threat to commercial karaoke than most hosts want to admit.

I never made that claim. They are still harming the industry because they didn't buy anything from the manu that they otherwise would have had too provided piracy wasn't around. But I doubt much could be done about it at this time.

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I think TLR was referring to L&L (Leopard Lizard), not you Lonnie.

Yup, one of a few reasons why karaoke producers can't give permission to media shift. It would be up to the publishers/owners.

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" Disc based and loving it..."

i dson't get it, AVLA can authorize copies of audio-visual works with music synced to videos (music videos) but they can not authorize copies of audio-visual works with music synced to videos (karaoke videos).
does this sound confusing to anyone but me?
synced video and audio is fine as long as the video and audio are not synced.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

They would have never bought a SC library. They CAN'T buy the GEM. They are hurting KJs, by staying home versus going out. I can't understand the concept that they are hurting Manus when they would have never bought from them in the first place. They may of bought a disc or two so that much I'll concede.

ANYONE that steals the music instead of paying for it is harming the entire fabric of karaoke. Period. End of Story.

-Chris

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-Chris