Karaoke Forums

Are You "Confused" by a Host Playing Digital Tracks? Are you in any way feeling mislead or deceived when going to a karaoke show that is playing their tracks (yes, the ones they own) from a computer. Do you have a hard time sleeping at night because you are so confused by a KJ playing his media shifted tracks from a laptop? I know this sounds pretty silly, but it is a trademark litigation tactic. I think this is a real stretch of the imagination when used as one of the criteria for format shifting lawsuits. Keep in mind I'm not talking track thieves, as Joe puts it.

This topic has been touched on in another current thread, but many don't read the legalities section, so that is why I posted it here. As stated before, I don't believe in track theft, and most probably know that I have an above average collection of discs. Bazza thinks they (discs) are nearly worthless and have no place in today's world. Maybe he's right in one sense, but he's absolutely wrong in my world of "Boomers". However, I do believe in format shifting as most of us here do.

I don't do a lot of shows any more, but when I do (sounds like a beer commercial) I have never had anyone approach me and ask me if I made the tracks I am playing, or do I own the company that makes the tracks, or do I work for them. I don't get the feeling that any one is "confused" by what I am doing.....do you? Lon has stated that in a side by side comparison the "ripped track will have edgier fonts". Is that were the "confusion comes from... "edgier fonts". How about Joe with his super "BATMAN" ears (sorry Joe) ..... is he confused because it doesn't sound quite right . I don't think so. So if it isn't the slight difference in appearance (unless it is a poor rip) or the mp3 vs wav what is "confusing" about playing a karaoke track from a laptop?

Jim H has tried to clarify it for me, and I thank him for that, but it just doesn't seem to settle well in my very "confused" mind. I don't think that digital karaoke has confused me, but I think the legal system has.

mrmarog wrote:
I have been associated with karaoke as a listener, singer and host since 1989 and I have never, not even for a second, thought that the host was somehow associated with the manufacturing or creation of the tracks being played. Furthermore I have never met or spoken with anyone, before during or after a karaoke show, that thought that the host was somehow associated with the creation of the tracks being played.

The thing is, this is the digital age. Hardly anyone uses and plays discs anymore. It's getting rare to find a new laptop that still comes with a CD drive.

The point is, we legally purchased these now antiquated CD's and want to transfer them to our PC's. We're not hurting anyone and it shouldn't be made to be such a big deal.

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I have been confused as far as if a host paid for SC product and shifted it or stole it. I don't know what kind of host I'm dealing with at a computer show. Around here there was one guy evidently selling copies of his drive and the people who bought it were also sharing copies and even getting ripped off by their employees making copies. So if I went to one of their shows it was not clear as to if I was seeing an SC product or something that they created as multiple duplications. A singer would probably assume it was an original SC product and not realize and in that way they had been confused even if they didn't know enough about the situation to realize it.

So are you confused because you think they actually made those tracks and attached someone else's trademark to it and amazingly they look and sound the same? I understand your trepidation, but not your described confusion.

Batman doesn't have Super-Hearing. Superman does.

Funny you should mention that. I just came back from a 9 day Caribbean cruise, and I went to Karaoke on the ship almost every night (I nearly killed my vocals one night, when I sang "Confrontation" from "Jeckyll and Hyde," so I needed a 1 day rest). Anyway, the KJ was running her show from CDGs.

Excerpt from a Sound Choice lawsuit

"...The Defendants’ use of [Slep-Tone’s trademarks] is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive the Defendants’ customers and patrons into believing that the Defendants’ services are being provided with the authorization of the Plaintiff and that the Defendants music libraries contain bona fide {Sleptone} accompaniment tracks."

I get that point...

Ok Cue you got my point. I started this thread because there is humor in this line of reasoning as a basis for suing. The manu's may not think it's funny because it is one of their major arguments , but us outsiders find it very difficult to take serious. I am not confused by a pirate using material he doesn't own, but I am angry that he is using it for free.
Is that to imply that they are NOT confused if they see someone playing from a disc. How would a novice have knowledge that either one was legal or illegal? And why would they question it in the first place? The only ones that might question it are us (KJ's and knowledgeable readers) that are aware of the lawsuits. I don't get "confused" when I see a lady carrying a Gucci handbag worrying that it may be a knock-off... unless maybe I'm a Gucci.

I never said they had no place. I said they were obsolete technology...which is true.

Hey...people still buy VHS tapes.

Consumer confusion cannot just be invented; there has to be conditions in place to cause the confusion, i.e. a lower selling price than is normally expected for the product. In this case, the actual product in question is not being sold, which can convolute the theory...

I think people are getting hung up on the word "confusion" and what they are thinking it means vs the way it is being used in a legal way. The customer doesn't have to be perplexed or even wondering. The fact that they presume they are seeing an original SC product means they have been "confused" into believing that--as in the exerpt printed by Big Jer.

I think it has also been explained before that a person with original discs is not going to be able to go all the way in court as it would be dropped at discovery.

Cue, I think Batman has miniature boom mikes (and a transceiver/receiver radio) built into his cowl so he does have "super-hearing". Remember he has something Superman doesn't and that's a load of money and a bunch of neat toys.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

LMFAO!!!!

I have never been confused about where KJs got their music. I also never cared. As long as i could sing, I was happy. Personally, I think most Karaoke singers are the same. I know my customers don't question me. They do know I buy my downloads, because I tell them when I am doing it. I'll even go as far as showing them the purchase process, if they are interested. Most aren't. They just want their song, and are happy that I take the time to get it for them. I have had a few people tell me not to buy the song for them. I tell them that it's my pleasure to make sure they have the songs they want, plus that builds my collection. That makes them happy because they know I care.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

And again, no one has yet explained why a host who owns his/her discs would have been sued in the first place, whether dropped lter or not.

Having the discs means that there could not have been evidence of wrongdoing, therefore precluding said KJ from being sued in the first place, assuming the litigator was dealing honestly.

Thus, the oft repeated statements that KJs who own the discs would be dropped later is, in my opinion, an admission of wrondoing on the part of the litigator, as well as a lack of investigation to start with. I am also of the opinion that each repetition of this statement makes the litigator look less and less credible.

That being said, I do not believe that any "confusion" is generated for the singers in regard to the product, be the sound track being played disc or PC sourced. They only know whether they like the version or not.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Hmmmm, if there is an obvious difference that can be seen on the screen, how could folks playing from original discs be caught up in litigation. According to some here, the fonts and screen size of the lyrics are the visible difference, so no trained investigator would turn them in, and yet....... the more we discuss this, the goofier it sounds.

From what I have read and been told, confusion in and of itself is not the sole reason infringement has occurred. Their are several elements that must be present for trademark infringement to occur.


1. you have to copy the product.

2. The copied product has to be good enough to confuse the average person that it is the real product.

3. The person doing the copying must be trying to sell the item in question, as the original product.

The average host is not selling a product, he is providing a service. I think most of us would agree there is a difference between physically making a real product, and providing a service. That is why they are always discussed as providing goods and services. The original SC product was on a disc, if the host is using a PC I don't see how there could be any confusion that it is original SC product. Since it is on the PC and not being used in the original disc format, there is no way the average person could think it is SC original product. So where is the confusion? It would seem more reasonable that there would be more confusion if the host were using a disc, since the disc being used could be confused as original SC product.

I think we have talked about this before Bazza. The function of the disc has shifted with technology improvements. It used to be the function of the disc to be a vital tool of the karaoke host, and for the few hosts that are still disc based yes it is a vital tool. For the PC host, however, the function of the disc has shifted from being a tool, to proving that your library is 1:1 compliant. Mrmarog is right also about the Boomers since they are the core of my niche business as well. They still cling to the disc since that is what they are comfortable with, a little dose of "Future Shock".

The average person probably would not know that little detail about SC only making their product available on CDGs and not in downloadable format for a PC). The average person probably doesn't even know one Manu brand from the next. The average person could care less. The average person just wants to sing a song in front of everyone else (or just their friends).

Agreed. Prior to posting here? As a person who just really enjoys going and singing karaoke? I would have had no idea how the product was delivered. Hell, it took me a while to figure out "Hey, I like this version better than this version."

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast