Karaoke Forums

Note - I want this topic to have a broader audience so I am respectfully asking for posters to avoid making this a legal discussion which would warrant a move of the thread.


I know this it isn't the same in all areas where Sound Choice has been active, but in my area, being certified seems to make a positive difference.

I just secured a 3 night a week gig that starts on the 24th. I was contacted because I am certified. The owner and I had a long conversation about legalities, licensing, BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, etc. He asked to see my paperwork from my certifications and after giving the rest of my pitch I picked up the gig.

A second venue contacted me last week and we are trying to arrange a meeting. They also are looking for a certified host.

That is two more venues looking for certified hosts on top of the 3 existing gigs I picked up because I am certified. Four of the 5 contacted me. The other I found on my own. That's an additional 3 nights a week for sure, and potentially a total of 6-10 more nights a week of business for me.

So to all the naysayers that continuously repeat that Sound Choice has hurt the landscape, that Sound Choice is toxic, that certification from any of the manufacturers isn't worth the paper it is printed on; I feel I am proof positive that you are wrong. The money I have paid for certifications, GEM series, and buying discs has been returned many times over and continues to grow my business.

I would argue the people that don't see the value of certification and tell everyone they can that Sound Choice is evil - they are the ones that are poisoning their communities against karaoke. They are ones that contribute to the negative perceptions that their local communities have about Sound Choice and certification.

Word of mouth has a lot of weight. It can be very influential. If the word of mouth is negative, then that is what people will go with. Instead of beating up on the karaoke companies and complaining that you shouldn't have to "pay again for what I have already bought", try looking at it through the lens of business growth and opportunity. Leverage certification to your benefit. The small investment in certification I have made has and continues to pay for itself over and over for me because no matter what my personal opinions are of HOW the manufacturers pursue pirates and media shifters, the end result is that people are paying for their music and certified hosts are able to reap the benefits of being recognized by the manufacturers as legitimate hosters. I don't bad mouth the karaoke companies, or their processes to my singers, other hosts, and definitely not to venue owners. That positive outlook will win over negativity every time.

Pirates and thieves will always be around. There is no way to eliminate them completely. We all know this.

Think about what your impact is on your karaoke sphere of influence. If you have nothing good to say about karaoke and you are only concerned with making sure your negative opinion is heard, then you are part of the problem with why venues don't allow Sound Choice or don't see any value in certification. If you see no value in certification and the actions of the karaoke manufacturers, and in fact actively speak out against these means of controlling piracy, then you are part of the reason why pirates maintain a foothold in your own community.

-Chris

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-Chris

I had 2 possible venues I had to turn down due to I only have the 1 system. I almost got the PA system for my 2nd one finished and will be acquiring the GEM for it for the core. I will probably try to pick up the top 500 songs for the last year from my current gig as well to help kick it off when i'm ready.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Good luck Lonnie!

I am also having to put together another rig. My new Shure S55 came in yesterday. Have a rolling rack, a ZED60-10FX, and EV tops and subs ordered.

Things are looking up!

-Chris

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-Chris

i have had the opposite experience.
two years certified got me only called a hundred names, chased out with tire thumpers and more than one gun.
January i dropped all mention of certifications, SC, lawsuits, etc and i have been turning down gigs for lack of systems or hosts.
within the first two months of dropping all mention of certs i was overloaded but for the two years prior i could not get anybody to listen because SC is a four letter word in the karaoke world in AZ and as i was certified i was the one causing all the problems to the venue owners.
unfortunately putting the SC and CB certs on my press material has been the worst thing that i have ever done for my business and has cost me untold amounts of money.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Paradigm - I believe your experience is in line with what I posted in this thread. Unfortunately the pirates and even legitimate folks have pushed back so hard in some areas that people close their eyes to the benefits of certification or even just doing things above board.

I think it sucks that you jumped through the hoops and it didn't benefit you. It isn't your fault though. The negative smear campaigning against the karaoke companies is hard to ignore much less overcome.

I have the benefit of there being a solid karaoke magazine that I have had the fortune of writing for. One of the largest karaoke hosters in the Seattle area is also pro-legal karaoke and along with other pro-legal folks, we have a strong voice in the community. We also have two long time brick and mortar karaoke stores, of which one is pretty vocal about people paying for their music. The backlash here was never as strong as in other areas.

Note I say pro-legal and not pro-certification. There are still many in Seattle that don't necessarily support audits and certifications, but they do support legal hosts and those that pay for their music. They may not agree with audits and certification but they don't openly bad mouth the karaoke companies about it.

-Chris

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-Chris

I understand Paradigm's dilemma in a way because I am in an area that likes to think of itself as the Wild West with no rules. Being "legal" can be a threat to those venues that feel they have to cut legal corners to survive. They just want entertainment as cheaply and hassle free as possible and anyone who rocks that boat with promoting legalities can seem like a threat to all of the other grey area things they may be doing. Nothing like trying to promote a karaoke show when the owner doesn't want to draw the attention of BMI. It just is a self-defeating loop. But when you find a bar that sees jumping through the hoops as part of doing business I think you find a bar that will invest more in making the show a success--at least I am experiencing that right now, knock on wood.

Maybe I shouldn't comment as I am not certified but I do promote being legal (which I can do being a disc show). I don't warn against computer shows other than when I have to explain why I am not at this point and I tell them my main reason for not is monetary at the moment and not fear. And I don't make fear my main point as people might just want to drop karaoke altogether. Plus without suits in the area they think it wouldn't happen way out here anyway. But I do try to make the point that a legit operator has made more of an investment and will work harder to make their show a success. I think when you find a bar with the same attitude then being certified would be a plus as it is further proof that you are serious about making your business work.

Oh--and if you are in a heavy pirate area (who isn't?) they often will spread it among the singers that the suits are going to ruin karaoke, will make fewer venues have it so their singing wait will be longer and it will also cut down on their song choices and threaten their home hard drive parties. So I don't doubt what Paradigm says but I do agree with Chris that it is a promotional problem--but a serious one as we were almost literally run out of one town that way once.

I look at it this way, I run a legal show. Simple. I am part disc based (SC), and part computer, (everything else). I buy my music from the available online Karaoke stores out there. I don't need certification for that. I don't need certification for people to know I am legal. I am glad to show my customers how I run my show.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I can say that certification has never been an issue at least in this area. The venue is more interested in a hosts track record, and if he or she can help the overall bottom line. It makes little difference if you are certified or non-certified it is more important to be able to keep customers at the venue spending money. I'm not saying certification can't be a plus, but it is only in a few enclaves. Evidently Chris you are in one of the high profile areas where SC is making continual efforts. Just like Athena is in Florida. What ever happened to her, haven't seen her posting lately? It is simply not possible with SC's limited resources to be in more than a few local karaoke markets at a time. The minute they shift their attention to some place else the pirates come back. It has always been my position that this approach is doomed to failure, over the long haul. Oh well 17 more days and all of this will be meaningless anyway. If certification is working for you all well and good. By the way did you ever get with Gretchen and get an appointment to renew your defunct CB certification with PR?

I spoke to Gretchen a few weeks ago and decided I would hold off on performing the audit of my Chartbuster collection. I have more CB content than any other brand due to the fire sales so I know I am well covered if anyone comes knocking. I will probably do an audit in the future as a show of good faith.

-Chris

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-Chris

So if I understand your post correctly, a Chartbuster audit will only consist of them checking your CB stuff only and not any other manus stuff. Is that correct?

So if you have a Sound Choice audit they only check if you have the SC discs only? Just wanted to clarify.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Correct.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This is correct. I went through the Sound Choice audit sometime ago and the auditor had no interest in anything but my Sound Choice discs even though I brought everything I owned at the time.

I can't really speak for the CB audit as I have never been though one, but I feel pretty safe in saying the only thing I need to provide are my Chartbuster products.

-Chris

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-Chris

OK, here's my next beef... I don't think that a KJ should be charged for an audit. If a KJ voluntarily wants an audit, why do we need to pay for it? We already paid thousands of dollars for the discs, why do we need to pay more to prove that we own them.

Gretchen-- is there something you can do about this? I think this is wrong. I also think that more KJ's would get certified if it was free. So, help us out here. I feel that if you own and have a large collection of discs from a manufacturer, a free audit/certification should go without saying.

In my case, I own all the Essential 450 volumes plus countless other CB discs. But I won't pay for an audit. But if it's free, I would have no problem getting certified. Again Gretchen, take care of us good customers.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

The paid audit discussion has been hashed out in other threads. Please start a new thread, follow-up in an existing thread, or just shoot her a PM with your gripes/questions.

-Chris

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-Chris

Aren't YOU sounding like Mr. Moderator??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Well, somebody has to do it.

Alan... If you're looking for answers, do an AUTHOR Search for Gretchen. Here are answers to your gripes...
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:44 am - "Piracy Recovery LLC web site"
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:56 am - "Piracy Recovery LLC web site"
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:52 am - "The Validity Of SCDG's?"

1) Chris, per your own statement, the results of SC's actions are REGIONAL, and therefore those of us or our markets that are affected negatively by by those actions could just as easily say that we and our markets are poof positive that YOU are wrong. However, from what I've read here, both scenarios exist and neither are "wrong".

2) Again, one whose area has been negatively affected could make the claim that those who would make SC supporting comments add to the damage that SC has caused to their markets by giving them credence.

Both are stements and opinions based on the differing perspectives and results it different regions.

Athena also swears they have had a positive effect in her work region as well ( swept what- five times?). While she may have picked up work, from what I've been told by colleagues down there, piracy is as rampant as ever.

On the other hand many areas have reported in both here on the forum and elswhere that they have had results similar to my own. Even mention a producer cert, ( especially SC), and a prospective client will send the KJ to the door. ( See Paradigm's post from a completely different region than mine. I would also add that while-due to your perspective- you blame everyone BUT SC for that situation, my perspective, experiences, and knowledge forces me to to place the blame squarely on SC's shoulders.) Many venues won't allow the product to be played, severely limiting KJS with SC-heavy libraries, and the market itself has changed with venues either stopping or never starting karaoke in an effort to control wave-making.

I happen to be lucky due to my length in service in my work area, reputation, and in some cases simply because I am OMD based. In other words, I do well in spite of producer actions, and certifications mean nothing but trouble here. Sheck the SC site and see how many NJ based hosts are listed. There's a reason for that.

However, to repeat, it's all regional, and making statements in absolutes just won't work for all.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe - two words explain why people are so pissy about Sound Choice in your area - NEW JERSEY

Seriously though.....

My argument is that in areas that have an overly negative perception about Sound Choice, it is primarily the karaoke community itself that shapes that perception. Simple as that.

I think all of us have heard at some point in our lives that thinking positively induces positive results and thinking negatively sets one up for failure. Couple that with the old adage "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" and we see that we have more control over perceptions that we may realize. I don't completely agree with how Sound Choice and now PR, LLC, have worked to manage piracy, but I don't (@$%&#!) and moan about it to my singers, my venues or other hosts in my area. That's not to say it is never a topic of conversation, but when it comes up, I try to make it a more neutral to positive experience than overtly negative.

I am also not suggesting that SC and in particular Kurt shouldn't be held accountable for how things have played out in some areas. I personally think SC needs a public relations manager to handle outbound communications and work to repair negative perceptions in the community. i don't know how Sound Choice approached their actions in other areas of the country, but in the northwest, there was an active campaign by Sound Choice to get the word out about piracy and impending legal actions by Sound Choice. Kurt came out and had a roundtable with local KJ's (which I understand was only very lightly attended) and Kurt wrote articles in the local printed/online karaoke magazine. They got the word out well in advance of action and gave people an opportunity to "Get Legit or Quit". I don't believe that took place in all areas. I suspect that in areas where lawsuits suddenly popped up with little to no advance warning that there has been a much greater backlash.

In my experience, getting people engaged with the process and identifying influencers - cheerleaders if you will - who will help you engage with the community and scale your messaging is the best possible approach to getting traction. But you have to get the right people. Influencers that take only a radicalized approach and blindly, without any deep thought attack the community will be met with resistance no matter what. Also, just showing up and filing lawsuits with no forewarning will end up with even the most positive people leaning against you. Once that happens, it is a lot harder to turn people around.

But we still have a choice to make in our own local eco-systems. We can choose to accept that what some of the manufacturers are doing is an effort to re-coup losses and in general try to reduce piracy and make life better for legitimate KJ's. Or we can choose to only see the negative aspects of what the manufacturers are doing and, like an infectious disease, make sure everyone knows that is how we feel about it and that is how they should feel about it too.

The former WILL end up with a more positive outlook by more people in the community. The latter WILL result in people lashing out against karaoke in general.

-Chris

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-Chris

I just got my second gig without certification. My area hasn't been molested by the Mfrs, so certification isn't an issue. I hope it stays that way.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE