Karaoke Forums

I am embarrassed for the people who think that the karaoke companies (namely Sound Choice) intentionally allow the pirate download sites and hard drive sellers to exist just so they can sue KJ's.

First - EVERY karaoke company is getting ripped off by the above distributors. NONE of them are suing people except for Sound Choice (and presumably PR, LLC at some point). If it is such a cash cow, why aren't ALL of the karaoke companies doing it?

Second - The Torrent, iRC and other online distribution channels are notoriously difficult to prosecute. Especially when they are distributed like Torrents because there is no single person to go after. iRC is similar because there are so many individuals distributing via a single "channel". Not to mention that moving and setting up another iRC channel is relatively simple. Not to mention that if it is primarily served from outside of the US it becomes astronomically more difficult (and expensive) to prosecute

Third - The hard drive sellers are also difficult to pin down. The Bill Bene case was investigated for a long time and required the FBI and the IRS to get involved, neither of which typically get involved unless it is high profile enough to make the headlines and create positive buzz for the respective agencies.

Fourth - If this was such a lucrative venture for the manufacturers (namely Sound Choice) why aren't they filing lawsuits every single day against KJ's? When was the last round of lawsuits filed? Wouldn't there be a TON more certified and/or GEM licensees on the list if this was such a lucrative business?

Fifth - If Sound Choice specifically was making more money suing people than producing content, it would still behoove them to produce more content for the pirates to distribute so they could continue suing KJ's forever. Every Pirate KJ that has been in business for more than a year has every single Sound Choice track. It is only the new pirates coming online that have reason to pirate Sound Choice. And according to many of the folks here, there is much better quality content than SC to pirate these days anyway so it is quite possible that after 5 years of no production, the pirates are less interested in pirating SC now. According to some, Zoom and SBI are the hot new vendor and that is who everyone will be pirating.

If you have bought into FUD that the manufacturers (namely Sound Choice) allow certain forms of piracy just so they have KJ's they can sue, then you really should go back to school. Seriously. It doesn't take much educated thought to realize that the accusation falls apart very quickly with even a smallest amount of scrutiny.

-Chris

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-Chris

That wouldn't be cost effective, unless they could speed up the trial process, radically. Think of how many inspectors AND lawyers they would need. Then they would have to have an ongoing mission, forever. As soon as they wiped out all the pirates, all new ones would come in. And it would be a perpetual cycle.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

You don't have to be embarrassed for me. Even though they aren't filing tens of thousands of lawsuits at a time, they are STILL making money of those they have filed and have sold many GEM sets as part of those settlements. Many of which they would NOT have sold without the pirates. Many NEW Kjs, are not interested in spending $4,500 on 6000 songs of which many will never be sung. New KJs know this. The trend of buying single downloads is going to keep growing, and it will REALLY hurt SC over time, if they don't get involved. So, if Piracy and media shifters are SC's most lucrative source of income, why WOULD they want the pirates to go away?? It would make no sense. If they were truly interested in being a Karaoke company again they would start producing again, and join the rest of the active producers in making money from making music.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Hi. I hope this doesn't come across as attacking or too harsh, but you asked and this is what I honestly think.

What you could do to get me to Vegas unless I happened to be there already and have time to kill would be to offer something in the way of info or opportunities that I couldn't learn or gain elsewhere and usually easily,locally, or for free . These forums alone have most of the info and leads to full info offered in those workshops.


Perhaps it would interest others, and again, just my opinion.

I agee. it is not a cash cow, but being cut off from making new music by publishers wanting the copyrights the other companies get to keep leaves them no other avenue.


it is so often forgotten that he did not get busted for piracy, copyright infringement, trademark infringement, or anything having to do with that....his charges....tax evasion. not copying anything, not selling those copies, but for not paying taxes on those sales like any other business. and don't forget, sc was not the only company on those drives. saying that piracy put sc in this almost closing position would be saying that the surviving companies were not on those drives. we know it is not true, so it was not the cause, a factor...absolutely, but not the cause.


you are right, it is not lucrative.

100% agree

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I'm sure Ryan will be back later to check things out - it is Thanksgiving after all! Hoping you guys and gals are having an enjoyable holdiay!

In all fairness, since this thread has already been HIJACKED and steered way off course from the ORIGINAL OP, your requests may have gone unnoticed.

And, in all fairness LL, Ryan did come HERE and POST HERE, asking what he could offer to get our interests in attending. Questions and suggestions have been asked/written, and all that was responded to was the one about them not paying our travel and stay expenses to come out there (which was obviously posted as a joke (as evidenced by the use of an emoticon) because it was an unrealistic request anyway). One WOULD EXPECT some more responses from Ryan HERE.




And now, for a 3rd time, I have moved my post and will repeat this yet again….

Ryan, here's something you can offer as an incentive to come down there... Offer up free show tickets to one of the big name shows... something like one of the Cirque Du Soleil shows. I'm sure you can get some kind of Corporate Bulk business rate on a bulk purchase.



And just to make sure these don't get missed...

















As an additional footnote to Ryan.... It's been mentioned in a few posts that most of your Speakers are UNKNOWN to us (as part of the Karaoke Community), and thus may not have a big enough draw to make us want to come out to Vegas. It's also been mentioned that (at least) one named Guest Speaker already has a NEGATIVE DRAW amongst us here, because most already have a very good idea what he is going to talk about (and most will add that he has nothing new to bring to the proverbial table).

These are things that you might want to focus your attention on... who to invite to be a Guest Speaker, and what Topics could be addressed (along with their relevancy to the people attending). Try to keep in mind, some KJs (like myself) are still running shows off of discs and NOT off of a PC, so topics about new technology might not be very relevant to me (definitely not cost effective for me to convert/media-shift everything). And, while a topic on how to use Social Media to promote myself might be helpful, there have been many here (on this Forum) who have given very sound advice on how to accomplish that (so flying out to Vegas and spending money on a Hotel room to hear about this also would not be very cost-effective). As SingyThingy just wrote:


edit to my footnote: This was not meant to be about me when I spoke of how I am of the rare breed of KJs here (Disc Based and technologically challenged). I was using my situation/position/circumstances as an example to point out that certain topics being discussed at this convention are not of interest or relevance to everyone. Rather than being made to feel belittled by comments such as "If one does not wish to do what it takes to be a part of the revolution, they need to be willing to exist in their bubble and allow the rest of the world to pass them by without being nothing more than a thorn in the side of progress...", as a possible draw to go out there, it would be nice to know that attempts were being made to offer up a little of everything, so that certain groups of KJs would not feel completely excluded.

A recurring theme on many of these forums seems to be that many sects of this industry seem to be struggling with how to be relevant in a technologically advancing society. If one does not wish to do what it takes to be a part of the revolution, they need to be willing to exist in their bubble and allow the rest of the world to pass them by without being nothing more than a thorn in the side of progress...

Wow is the first word that comes to mind after reading most (some post I just glossed overs since I already know the theme of the post) of the responses to Ryan's OP.

Mobile Beat 2014 in Vegas will be a great learning and teaching event. Those that attend will have an opportunity to meet other KJ's (peers) and share their ideas back and forth. Yes' it is a great social event as well as a chance to hear from those that have been selected to present their ideas to you the attendees. If you have ever been to any major DJ/KJ trade show you know that you usually come away from it with some fresh ideas of perhaps a renewal of an idea or concept you already had in your head but never implemented or just stopped doing because you became complacent (I have and I attend several major event each year). Never been to a show, maybe it is time you attend. The world is no longer flat.

This year at Mobile Beat, Ryan has considered the Karaoke host from around the country and has gotten together with the major karaoke providers (yes, including SC because they still sell and ship karaoke discs every day) and put together a whole day devoted to just karaoke. To me that is awesome because karaoke is often treated as the bastard step-child at most major dj events and often times karaoke host are treated as "almost djs" by some of the peers in the dj industry. Those time are a changin'

Now here comes the part that will make some mad and others take notice:
I read where some of you can't go because of financial reasons (for some that is true and for some that is just an excuse that sounds good). I will be at this event and yes, it is costing me money since I am flying out (no cheap fare for me because I am flying from a regional airport to get a connection) and spending money on a hotel room for the duration (hotel (at the Riveria) and flight = $700). I just did not decide to go yesterday, I planned this trip months ago and began saving for it (extra shows and all my tip money). If you are a legitimate business then you know this trip is tax deductable along with all other expenses you encure while there (less gambling) but you already know that, right? The cost of attending the show (Karaoke Monday) less than $50 (really, you don't have $50 you can spare). The cost of attending the show all week including the regular DJ events and exhibits $249 (saving for a year each week = $4.80 per week (less than a pack of smokes or 2 beers or whatever non essential you could live without (yes I do understand, since I used to smoke). Total cost of event now including show pass = $949 before food. (I'd eat here locally so I don't consider food additionally unless I eat a special meal then I add to my budget) so lets make the whole expense $1000. If you do the math and break down the cost to save per week for a year then how does $20 per week to save sound? Most of you can not tell me that you don't have an extra $20 to spare? If you don't, then maybe it is time to figure a way to get there to see how you can learn (you are never to old to learn are you?) to make an extra $20 a week. I have been in the KJ/DJ/Entertainment business for a long time and I have had to learn how to budget/save money so as to grow my business financially and emotionally. I do this business full time and pay for my own house. I did not win the lottery nor did I inherit a small fortune, I have learned to live within my means but at the same time never compromising my business. I have learned to say no to things and the things that i want come in time and as i am able to afford them. I invest back into my business before pleasure but then when it come to pleasure, I save and plan. Do you? If you want it bad enough, you will find a way.

Now on to the other part that will probably make some really mad but not my first rodeo at doing that:

Ok, so you don't like SC or CB or DT or all the afore mentioned, OK. Your choice. But, let me ask you this, You use their product, why? I know, to make money, right? Nobody is stoping you. How many of you that express dislike of one of the people mentioned have ever actually met or spoken or spent any time around them. My guess is, very few. They don't run your business, do they? I'd say not, you do but you are emotionally letting them or at the very least your perception of them control you and you don't even know it. Over the years (I will bet I am more like most of you than you realize) I have spent considerable time either speaking to (face to face or on the phone) all the major players in the karaoke industry. I for one have not always agreed with every aspect of their business but I have also come to respect what they do as business people. The products that they have offered to me have helped me realize the financial goals that I have set for myself as a business to grow and prosper. I may not be a fan of Walmart or Target of even Chick Fil A but I do purchase some of the products they offer to move forward in my life. Some of you express your dislike of Kurt but infact you still use the products his company sells to make money. Some of you say his product does not matter and if that is the real case than just do away with it and move on. I have come to know Kurt and I can tell you that he is NOT out to get you. I suggest that you take some time and either do a face to face of on the phone and see that he is really trying to just regain lost revenue that the real pirates have stolen and profited from his product. But now that is my opinion so take it for what it is worth. The push back that some objecting to going to the show because he is there is just a shallow excuse to just not go. I am almost positive that if you took a few minutes and met with him one on one you might change your stance just a bit. Maybe there is something in your business you are trying to hide, that i don't know. Otherwise, what has he done directly to you, or are you just jumping on the hate Kurt train because it sound like the popular thing to do. It is funny that people will make outrageous claims about Kurt that are unfounded and are pretty much urban legend (if it on the internet it must be true). I have been in his original offices many times and I have also most recently been in his new offices and seen what has happened to his business model. Have you are are you just assuming. Get to know the man and not the myth. He is working to bring his product into (your words) the 21st century with downloads but is restrained by agreements with the publishers. If karaoke was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? Also, I have over the years gotten to know and visit with the original owners of CB and now the new owners of DT and PR LLC. They are all supporters for the KJs being successful but also understand that over the years the KJs have not always supported the efforts them by either supporting the theft of the manus product by being cheap and buying harddrives or sharing or ignoring the other blanket theft of their works often time misquoting laws that don't apply to justify their own actions of of others. Some of you are just ignorant to what is really going on and it is time (if you really want to get it) for you to hear it from the actual manus as to that they are really doing. At this point some of you are probably thinking I am in the pocket of the manus. The answer is yes to the extent that is they go away where am I going to get my music from other than questionable off shore companies that (it is debatable but really never proven true) that are or are not not paying the artist what they are owed for their intellectual property (that term has long been used prior to the digital age).

Here is my point,

Continue to go down the path you are on and continue to smack talk the manus. Also, blame everyone including them (the manus) for you own business failures of step outside the box you have created for you and see for yourself what is really going on in the karaoke community. Perhaps, learn something new (god forbid) or perhaps pass along to another KJ you own ideas of business growth in the new age of Karaoke. Yes, it is a new age and things have changed drastically and the industry is moving forward with or without you. Regardless if you are digital, or still flipping cds, the show has something for everyone. Karaoke reboot 4.0 is for you. It is not an agenda of the manus to brainwash you or even sell you something. They are there to be your ally and also learn from the KJs directly what it is the KJs really want, realistically. There are other topic that will be discussed aside from the music aspect. Is music the only thing you offer to your clients? If the answer is no, then you already realize that a KJ is much more than a music delivery system and hosting is a major part of the profession. Maybe, there is something missing from your hosting skill. Maybe, you have a skill you could pass along to a struggling KJ trying to make his show better. Come to Vegas and see what Karaoke is really all about. Ryan has put together a lineup that you can pick and choose who or what subject to spend your time with. Again, are you too old to learn. If the answer is yes, then why are you even on this forum other than to make noise. I challenge everyone to look within them selves and ask, what could I do to make my business better. More music is not always the answer. See you in Vegas!

Oh yea, almost forgot to discuss the other primary objection about not going to vegas. Being a single op. I am not a single op but I do not like being away. I do not know your schedules but my primary shows are Wed, Thurs and Friday (that I host) and my KJ works on Saturdays. The Las Vegas show starts on Monday the 3rd and ends on Thursday the 6th. I don't like losing money anymore than you do but I have made arrangement with my KJ that has filled in for me (one I trust, 'nuff said ) while I am gone. I do pay him well. I will still make money off his labor since he is using all my equipment. There are always workarounds. Yes will it cost me money to be in Vegas, yes but i can not afford not to be there. I see the value for me.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Hi Cue,

You probably already run a great show but maybe there is a module ther specific to running a great show. Maybe ther is a skill you might have never seen before that will help you, then again maybe not. The Karaoke module is not Manus specific.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

rumbolt: take note...

Maybe you make some good points in your ramblings but I'll never know because I can't read that gibberish in the style you write. A paragraph, as a general rule, should never contain more than three sentences. What you've done above, is very hard to read and causes eyestrain.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

[quote="Alan B"]rumbolt: take note...

Maybe you make some good points in your ramblings but I'll never know because I can't read that gibberish in the style you write. A paragraph, as a general rule, should never contain more than three sentences. What you've done above, is very hard to read and causes eyestrain.[/quote

That is your opinion and thanks for stopin' by

Oh and I take it by your response you are not going to Mobile Beat 2014 since could not get through my earlier post.

I hope u continue to call out all the other posters that write long paragraphs containing more than 3 sentences occording to you.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Don't take any offense, buddy. I was just trying to be constructive.

Whenever I see a post like that by anyone, is an automatic skip for me. Just too hard to read. Gives me a headache.

Again, just trying to be constructive. I hope I was able to help. Have a wonderful day!

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Too late, I am offended that you would critique the amount of words in the paragraphs but not even read it, really??? Is that all you got.

Ok, let me put it this way. Did you get the point of my original post. I guess not since you couldn't read it.

You have a nice evening too. Btw, I recommend you take some Advil for your headache

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

"Can you feel the love, tonight??!!"

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Not just tonight, smooth! Celebration of friendship abounds; I feel love is in the air every time I login the forums. NOT!

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

It's amazing how much hatred and malice a topic like Karaoke can conjure up. I go to work two nights a week, at this point, and have a blast. Then I get here and everyone is just beating each other up because they have different ideas about how a show should be run, and differences in how they feel about MFRS actions.

As for what makes a successful show, it's whatever works for YOU. There is no standard. Venues are different, crowds are different and shows are different. That is a good thing. Who wants every show to be the same?? What works for one KJ doesn't work for another.

I have three venues I work at. One is still my fill in. They like rock and country, mostly. My Wednesday night likes '70s, Country, and Motown. My Friday is a mix of Rap, Country and R&B.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

I am NOT critiquing the amount of words. That has nothing to do with it. It's about your one big 900 sentence paragraph that is hard to read.

But wait! You can accept constructive criticism and write so we can read it as evidenced by your response above. I am impressed.

I know that others feel the same way as I do but many don't have the balls to speak up. So, if I have to, I'll be the scapegoat for everyone else.

Anyway, rumbolt, you CAN conform and do the right thing. We are all very proud of you. Sometimes, change is a good thing. It just takes someone to point it out.

Smooth: "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" by Elton John (from The Lion King) is a great song. I've sang it often. Love it!
Brian: "Love Is In The Air" by John Paul Young is another great song although I've never sang it.

Once again rumbolt, I'm sure I speak for everyone on the forum when I say that we are all proud of you and look forward to reading your future posts using your newly acquired writing style. You go boy!

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

[quote="chrisavis"]I am embarrassed for the people who think that the karaoke companies (namely Sound Choice) intentionally allow the pirate download sites and hard drive sellers to exist just so they can sue KJ's.

First - EVERY karaoke company is getting ripped off by the above distributors. NONE of them are suing people except for Sound Choice (and presumably PR, LLC at some point). If it is such a cash cow, why aren't ALL of the karaoke companies doing it?



I am equally embarrassed for hosts that think SC has the goal of solving the pirate problem for them. SC is still a business and as such has to make sales, in order to produce positive cash flow. If they are not making any money they cannot stay in business. Any type of partnership between working hosts and the manus won't work. Their interests are not the same and come into conflict with each other.

This is why reporting pirates to manus will not work Chris since their interests are in direct conflict with yours. You are working hard to expand and promote your business. You see the pirates as a threat and want them eliminated. SC does not want to eliminate the pirates they want to make them their new customer base. By reporting piracy to the manus all you are doing is supplying them with a list of potential new clients, that their sales reps can exploit.

You are right Chris the legal process is not a cash cow. It is a desperate attempt by a couple of manus to create the illusion that they are serious about piracy. It is by the threat of suits that they hope to drive sales. So far after five years and a net negative compliance effect ,on the karaoke industry, it would be safe to say over 98% of the industry has not complied.

It has always been my belief that the reason other companies have not jumped on the legal process gravy train, is that it is too much of a risk without enough reward. Many companies have simply gone out of the karaoke manufacturing end of the business, others have modernized and continued to move forward. SC is stuck between a rock and a hard place, they have to stay with the legal process and the sales it might generate for the company, since they cannot work out a deal with the publishers to resume new production. One question that still needs to be answered is if SC doesn't produce new product in the next year will the fall into the the freeware status zone?