Karaoke Forums

Exactly what law or organization has granted you permission to display the lyrics in public?

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-Chris

Yeah, but you can reproduce iTunes music. They even let you put their stuff on disc. Once you do that, you pretty much have it permanently, because from there you can move it from disc to disc.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

When playing from disc as designed as long as the pro fees are paid by the venues I legally can display the lyrics no problems covered in the written licenses per the publishers who own the rights. Downloads and converted files is a different issue completely.

I would like for you to produce a link to something that says displaying the lyrics while playing from disc is covered and OK, but playing from a digital file or download is not.

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-Chris

How many people here ever thought that they would be sues for media shifting product they bought legally? Anything is possible, and even more so now with the giants awake.

I would also point outto KJFlorida that while owning the discs certainly provides some insulation, media shifting them for PC hosting is still a gray, untested area. Like I said, anything is possible...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I mentioned this before, and agree completely to a point. I think the P/Os will wait out current licensing with very few new issues. When all is said and done, I think they will assume control of the industry directly.

Extremely limited sourcing, much more expensive to buy, possible added fees, etc...

The only good news would be that the tracks will probably be all originals.

However, I believe that we will be going through a long dry period first.

Also, I foresee a return to some sort of copyright protected physical media. Otherwise they will be in the same boat in six months....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

What? The sky is falling?
Not quite. There is still hope.
Two weeks ago ASCAP submitted a list of licensing reform recommendations to Congress in an effort to clear up many of their concerns for the future that happen to also align with some of our concerns; and their list also gives definitive answers to some of the perennial questions that pop up in this forum.
Here's a link to the document:
http://www.copyright.gov/docs/musiclice ... S_2014.pdf
It's provides a good explanation of the current problems with music licensing and some good solutions.

From page 18:
That looks like the proof we're looking for that lyric display is not covered under the public performance license, and the proof that discs are no different than downloads in that regard.

Continuing from page 18:

If ASCAP's solutions for this are adopted and they are allowed to offer multiple forms of licensing, not only will our concerns about the display be resolved but manufacturers will be able to secure the sync licensing along with all the other licensing necessary to create a karaoke track through one stop shopping making their production easier and giving us access to more product.

From page 32:


They also address the issues of overseas licensing.
From page 33:


So here we have someone making an effort to change, it's happening now.
If you like the sound of these recommendations, now is the time to act by writing to your congressional representative to express your support. If anyone is interested in collaborating on composing and submitting a group letter of support to multiple members of congress at once, I would gladly be on board with that.

The sky isn't falling, it's just a little cloudy out there.
I expect for KJs and singers it's likely to be business as usual for quite some time to come.
For manufacturers of licensed karaoke things may be improving soon.
For manufacturers of unlicensed karaoke, I think things are going to heat up.
For publishers, they may want to take their ball and go home, but eventually we will have a new supply of balls.

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KNOW THYSELF

Thank You, Earthling!!!

This is exactly what I was hoping SOMEONE else knew about.

The state of our industry is always changing. There is a lot going on from different fronts. What we hear from anyone ONE person is not the whole story.

All of us can expect to see some changes over the next few years!

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-Chris

I'm willing to bet the publishers are going to start targeting kj's with 'no fly list' artists of ANY manu of any format. If that's the case, i'll be right there with everyone else - disc based or not. But most likely they will first target those playing in clubs NOT paying their PRO fees to begin with. I've already seen that happen here with bars that hire pirate kj's over the years. But wasn't a kj 'target' per se. I think that may change if the laws here don't change.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I doubt it. There is no money in it. They may be able to get money from the big Karaoke companies, but there is nothing to be gained by going after single ops.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Only time will tell. Or they will start targeting the bars that aren't paying a lot harder than they do now.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Then what are we supposed to do? If I ask the bar owner if he's paying his ASCAP and BMI fees, am I not supposed to take him at his word? Am I supposed to call ASCAP and BMI to make sure he's not lying?

I'm sorry but this has gotten so out of hand it's pathetic. I realize that people lie but I'd also like to believe that most are honest and should be given the benefit of the doubt.

So, if that bar owner says "yes, I'm paying my ASCAP and BMI fees", I will take them at their word. I have no reason not to and I certainly don't have the time to investigate whether or not they're telling the truth.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

So, if you already purchased the discs that these artists are on BEFORE the "no fly list" went into effect, can you still use them in your shows?

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

The dog ate my paper doesn't work in school and I asked the karaoke manufacture to show proof and they would not will probably not work in court.

But we need to keep in mind that while Jame's answer is technically correct, publishers simply haven't shown much interest in the common KJ. There is no money in it. They have shown a grand dislike for karaoke manufactures. So as of today, almost all of this is fairly moot. The ABC's would probably care if they came in to a place that wasn't paying fees and the music was stolen, but as long as it's paid for, they probably aren't going to ask much about where.

And the houie about discs being "safe" is just that,, Houie. When we buy a disc, we are buying the rights to the music. The plastic only means something to SC. If the fees are paid for downloads, they are just as "safe" as discs. The issue is with importing and I acknowledge that point. Over all, the issue is with American publishing and their greed versus the disc makers that they feel tried to screw them. I'll submit that the downloads played in the UK where the PSR rights were paid are much safer than many of the discs played in the US. After all, there has been suit after suit after suit where a rights holder has gone against a karaoke manufacturer for rights infringement.

I know a two of you hired a lawyer so you feel you have the skinny on the whole deal. How many lawyers are there in the US? That's a rhetorical question but the actual answer is way far too many? How many of those lawyers agree? I'll submit the percentage is far lower than 50% as almost every case has opposing lawyers with polar opposite opinions. So with that many opinions, how do you know you got the absolute "right" one? You can't because you didn't because there is no "right" answer. The huge problem is there is no law regarding karaoke. So all people are doing is guessing and I will submit that an educated guess is better than one that isn't. But just as Jame's answer is a safe one that isn't quite practical, we could also assume that almost any other opinion will be an educated guess way far on the safe side. I'll also submit that James could present the exact same case with the exact same opposition to different courts and have as many different outcomes as the courts he presented in. Why? Because there is no exact law regarding karaoke and everything is just a guess.

It would be pretty silly for a venue that has their ABC licences not to display them along with their food and liquor licences.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Ahem... if you read what was posted you would understand the rights to play from disc was covered in the original licensing from the PUBLISHERS (those who OWN the rights in question) Yes it is dependent upon the 'alphabets' being paid by the venues. Since the OWNERS have stated I have the rights to use the discs I have no worries. The laws may change at some point in time but currently I will follow the laws as they stand. If you wish to have the same info in writing from the publishers I suggest you do as my wife has done and develop a relationship with the publishers.

The OWNERS are still going after manus, disc or not. So if you can't be sure the manus have permission, what makes you think you do? And SC has stated on this thread that they will not give out specific information. But let me be clear that this isn't a SC thing. It's an American Manu thing, disc and downloads.

I'm going to. Again if it happens it happens.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You aren't answering the question......

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-Chris

I just chatted with support on Tricerasoft about all of this. This is off the record but I asked that they make an official statement here.

One point made is: The no fly list and the Universal ban is for KJs as well, whether you purchased discs or downloads. They have already adjusted their offerings just like most others have and they see no other changes in sight. Having said that, the point was also made that this is a money thing and the chance Universal comes after a KJ is slim and none because there simply isn't any money in it. So it affects sellers the most.