Karaoke Forums

What makes me feel I do is the communication my wife has FROM THE RIGHTS HOLDERS (publishers) The publishers are stating that licensing for discs conveys the right of use.... If a KJ buys a disc from a Manu and the Manu does not properly license the publishers will go after the Manu... not the KJ who bought those discs, this has been stated and proven many times by discs like 8125....download licensing that the publishers are licensing here in the USA is specifically limiting down the line rights

I think you're overreading what I wrote.

If you ask the bar owner, "Is it legal for me to play here?" That's an extremely nonspecific question that doesn't really get to the point of any kind of assurance.

If you ask the bar owner, "Have you paid your ASCAP and BMI fees? Do you have the paperwork they give you?" that's a specific question that provides you with some insulation in the event a lawsuit is filed.

You have a clear case of hearing what you want to hear syndrome. Disc Manus that sold through resellers do not even know who bought their disc. Producers can EASILY track download copies sold and back charge accordingly.

So, the word is, Universal and No fly applies to karaoke shows. Are you pulling your content? Word is, doesn't matter if it's disc or download. The only legal thing to do in that case is pull, correct?

It seems to me I am most legal as I bought all my content but do not charge for shows. That seems to be the only way to totally be legal in the US. Hopefully the stuff placed before congress can gain some ground. At least there would finally be some sort of foundation. I might would do shows again!

No I am not pulling songs from the no fly list that I purchased on disc before they were pulled. Yes I have pulled the 2 songs from no flyers I purchased on download. these decisions were based upon communication directly from the rights owners (publishers who own them) Many emails were exchanged and clarifications from those that have the right to authorize use of those tracks.

The publishers are stating there is a huge difference between disc and download. I realize that many here do not want to believe there is a difference and want to lump them together to fit into a box the way they WANT things to be, That however does not make it so.

I sill continue to make decisions for my company based upon what those "rights holders" advise. In the worst case scenario IF the rights holders decide to 'flex 'and shut down our industry I can and will return to playing from disc... its as simple as that. Those who have purchased downloads will not have that option.

It would be wise for everyone to remember or realize that licenses are a form of contract law....2 parties can agree to whatever terms they want in a contract with little regulation. The publishers hold the rights and therefore can call the shots. If you are going to listen to someone your best bet is the rights holders

I see no reason for anybody to pull them if they were purchased before the "No Fly List" went into effect.

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You got you some magic loogy discs right there! I really wish they held the powers you think they have. I would buy two to put on my dash to prevent boom booms and I would put two in every forest to prevent forest fires (gaining publisher and manu permission of course)! But, sadly, they are just pieces of plastic and I can't get them to do a damn thing for me other than rip karaoke tracks off them.

BTW, just ripped two discs and now remember what a PITA it was.

I don't either. The publishers are smart enough to not try to squeeze blood from a turnip. But what will the high and mighty do everything by the book people do when it doesn't suit their agenda?

What happens if Universal makes a public statement saying their content is not authorized for public performance via karaoke?

The UK publishers never thought the publishers would enforce the "no flyers" in the UK due to the amount of paperwork required... they were wrong. Tri never thought the UK Manus would pull tracks they were also wrong. Those my wife has spoke with at the publishers including Universal have stated they will have no problem suing KJ's if they have too... even if there is nothing to collect. As they have stated examples may have to be made. The publishers have plenty of cash to launch a lawsuit mill to prove a point.

What is the point?

Per those at Universal they can not issue a blanket reversal of rights on DISC... but they can enforce the different download rights. As I keep repeating worst case scenario I will be back to spinning discs like I did for years and all those computer only will be gone

That they, The rights holoder, hold all the power and us lowly KJ's have none.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Then Universal has to enforce their rights going forward.

They cannot retroactively de-authorize.

That is why the CDG physical media is different. That media was produced/licensed under the requirements that historically and presently exist. For licensed material, produced with permission, Universal cannot change the past, nor rescind their previous authorization.

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Never the same show twice!

No. they are pulling rights they have previously granted, so point disproved.

The point is simply to make a point... to set an example. To show those who are basically honest that stealing is wrong and has consequences. Sue and win huge judgments against 50 infringers nationwide, publicize those cases so everyone hears about them, have those examples followed and the detriment made public and less 'basically honest' people steal. Yes thieves wont care. They also show that they are attempting to preserve the rights they own and have not turned a blind eye allowing for legal protections in the future.

Wrong. They are not pulling rights they previously authorized. With very few exception the publishers have disallowed downloads here in the USA. Disc ownership carries legal protections that downloads do not PERIOD.

Overseas (PRS ect) licensing is opt out based..... all songs are fair game unless the publishers fill out paperwork to exclude them. Here in the USA the law is that all songs are Opt in based, nothing is allowed until paperwork is done. I suspect that UK Manus will continue to make discs and that 1 of sales will be imported and a few no fly tracks sill appear from time to time and then be pulled and replaced.

You want a level of protection buy on disc (premade or custom).

if they want infringers, go for it. But it sounds like the infringers that matter most are of the manu type, both domestic and foreign. They throw some KJs in there and I will concede. Until then, it's pretty much a manu producer thing. Don't know why I got so caught up in it as I am a lowly home user but someone needs to get the real, unloogied truth of what is going on.

If you want the answers do as Athena did and spend the time and energy to open a dialog with the publishers, Get the info directly from those who matter. She spent months trying to get those on this forum to do just that.

This spreading of the fear of being sued as a kj for using purchased downloads seems a bit silly and out of control to me.
How about looking at the issue with a little common sense?

What would a KJ operating as a KJ be sued for?

Distribution?
Suing for distribution is where the money is in a copyright lawsuit.
A proper KJ that does not sell and distribute any karaoke tracks has no need to fear a lawsuit over distribution.

Reproduction?
There isn’t much to be gained by suing for reproduction if there is no distribution.
However, if there were a threat of being sued for reproduction, a KJ that purchased a download has received authorization to make that single copy to hard drive from the source of purchase. It seems the KJ who made a copy from a disc would be at greater risk, but in either case if the reproduction were limited to a single copy from your personal collection the exposure would be limited and not worthy of a lawsuit.

Making a derivative work?
If that worries you, don’t create homemade tracks. If you do, don’t distribute them.

Public performance?
This is actually the only thing a proper KJ does that creates exposure to a lawsuit.
When the venue the KJ performs at has paid the licensing fees to the PROs that exposure has been limited. Even the music from artists on the dreaded “no-fly list” is covered by the public performance license.
If your paranoia runs so deep that you are still worried about publishers coming after you, simply turn off your audience screen and stop displaying the lyrics to those who aren’t singing. Put an image of the singer on that screen instead.

The risk of a KJ doing the work of a KJ being sued by a publisher or a copyright holder is almost non-existent.
Even all out pirates have had nothing to fear from publishers, so our fears should be limited to the number of hoops we will be forced to jump through to acquire music that allows us to compete with those who have no fear.

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KNOW THYSELF

Did they specify whether this was meant just for disc USERS or whether it included those tracks that are media shifted and used from a PC? Did they tell you specifically that media shifted tracks were covered in the same manner as discs simply because you own the discs?

Not trying to stir the pot. This is a real question, Frank. Did the media shifting subject come up?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

No problem and good question. Media shifting did not come up. Sorry, I did not raise it. Remember, they sell content already in MP3+G format so media shifting isn't something they are concerned about.