Karaoke Forums

With Karma's move to MDB databases there is a lot of opportunity for 3rd parties to develop some really cool stuff including what you are are talking about. Would have been nicer and easier to develop those apps around SQL, but given the scope of Karma, Access MDB makes sense. Can still do some tricks with exporting/importing data if you are hard core about it.

I am waiting for the builds to stabilize before I run the new Karma in production and before I start toying with the data.

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-Chris

I am also waiting for it to be tried and true before installing on my show computer.

Like I said I have singers that purposely sing songs that they haven't sang & ask me if they have before - cannot do that without a history.
I have singers that have well over 350-400 songs in their list - no possible way a kj is going to memorize more than a handful of songs for each singer - cannot do that without a history
I have singers that ask me to put songs in their list they'd like to learn and/or try at a later date - cannot do that without a history (ok if you want to hang on to little files and hold their slips for them).
Singers key changes/tempo changes are stored - cannot do that without a history (not sure if all softwares do this)
Looking to see when they sang a song last or how many times they sung a song at all - cannot do that without a history
Being able to create a report (important to some) of what is sung the most often or which artist is most popular or even which singer frequents your shows the most (this one would be the easiest to guesstimate, but still not always accurate)
There are other examples, these are the ones I can think of right off.

There are benefits most definitely that cannot be done simply by memory or file boxes.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Not at all. We have books the singers peruse, they write up their slip and bring them up. Having histories is time consuming and makes singers lazy.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

So do saving slips. However - like I and a couple other stated, singers don't necessarily just sing what is in their list (sure some will always sing their four or five songs and nothing will change that). Many purposely branch out and sing stuff NOT in their list. I have books still too (but this isn't about books or kiosks or phone apps), and that is when they start to look to see if I have a new song to add to their list. Or they may ask for a song they haven't sung in a few months, or. Just because the history exists don't make them more lazy than those that don't even need books to know their 4 or 5 songs numbers by heart.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Well not in real time but I do put up a list each month
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25536&p=391749#p391749

I also wish more kj's would put up similar reports.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It certainly does, but it's also providing a valuable service to them that they appreciate.

It's like saying "Having waitresses bring drinks to people is time consuming and makes them lazy. They can look through the menu, come to the bar and order them themselves."

Give the people what they want.

I use singer history and would be lost without it. It is amazing how many songs a person can remember, but it is no where near as good as a computer. It is particularly useful for singers that don't know what to sing.

I have used my own history to help ensure I don't sing the same songs repeatedly. I do the same for regulars. Just show them they have performed "Pu$$y Control" 68 times in 6 months and then recommend they sing "Short Dick Man" this time just for the hell of it.

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-Chris

chrisavis - "With Karma's move to MDB databases there is a lot of opportunity for 3rd parties to develop some really cool stuff including what you are are talking about. Would have been nicer and easier to develop those apps around SQL, but given the scope of Karma, Access MDB makes sense. Can still do some tricks with exporting/importing data if you are hard core about it."
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As it sits right now at 2015.0.12 you're sitting on a time bomb if you ever decide to move or delete a folder in your media list. As soon as you click remove folder Karma deletes song history for all singers songs that were in that folder.

For a temporary solution to keep this from happening, open the the KarmaDB.mdb file in access. Go to Data Base Tools - relationships and right click on the relationship between the media table and the singer history table. click edit and the uncheck the cascade delete box. That will keep your singer histories intact. They still won't show up in Karma as Karma filters any not found when it loads but at least they have not been deleted forever.

When I informed Bob of this problem his response was that I needed to be more professional and not move or delete folders from the media list. I am hoping that more people will decide that this is indeed a problem and make their concerns known to him.

I advanced my view that singer history should be completely independent of whether the song files exist or not because it is actually a Singer's song list first and foremost rather than just a history list.

It is trivial to add a current status field to the history table telling the KJ whether he currently has the song in his database or not.

There is absolutely no reason to delete any singer history at any time unless the KJ is actively involved in the process.

For my efforts at trying to report what I see as a basic database design failure I was rewarded with my 4th "You are an Idiot" from Bob in 5 years.

exactly.

how many times do you go to your favorite bar and by the time you get to a seat the bartender already has your drink ready and hands it to you?
that is not making anybody lazy, it is showing the attention and professionalism of the bartender.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

What does your reply have to do with my post?

I get it, you aren't happy with the latest version of Karma or Bob's responses to you. So what.

I know how to deal with Bob. I like Karma. As of last week, I have 10 paid for licenses of Karma.

And most importantly......I know when to upgrade and when not to.

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-Chris

Sorry but getting a drink is different and the server usually gets a tip. And then what happens if you don't want your favourite drink but something else? We don't worry about slips as they are paid for by an advertiser.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

DSM2000, I have gone over this several times already and as Chris has also stated he too knows when to update and when not to. No one is forcing you to update. If Apple comes out with I10 phone would you HAVE to purchase it even though your current phone has all the bells and whistles you need? Bob clearly stated that you needed to test at home the 2015 update before using it in a show. You have shown that you have considerable computer skills, but little common sense as to how to protect yourself from making changes that negatively impact you. By that I mean you should have made a snapshot of all your media paths and a copy of your old Karma data folder before installing a major update, and you should have done this on a "non-show" computer.

Last night I did my show, but my wife was too tired to do it with me, so she stayed home and decided to try and learn some new songs she found to sing. As I have stated I am still using 2013.1.19 because it has been performing flawlessly, but last night my wife accidently deleted her history file because in the 2013.1.13 version the mouse cursor lands on top of the "clear history" button by default and that is reason enough for me to find a later version that has the problem fixed. That is the type of reason for updating that makes me want to update. Everybody has different ideas of what is important, but it shouldn't be at the risk of total disaster with no turning back.

For about the 20th time . . . I am not trying to run the new version at shows. I stress test each and every version that is released and none of the 2015 versions through .0.12 have been stable enough to get me to even think about loading it on one of my show machines.

The only reason I bring the singer history problem up is that Bob does not think it is a problem!

If Bob does not think it is a problem then he will not take steps to fix it unless enough of his user base can convince him that it is a problem.

If enough of his user base does not even know of the potential problem until months from now when it bites them in the rear then he obviously will not take any steps to correct it.

"Wait for the next release" is totally useless advice under these circumstances.

Considering the issue will only be resolved in a future release, it seems like perfect advice.

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-Chris

Actually this is only the 4th response on this thread and not once have you mentioned that you aren't using it in your shows. So the bottom line is that everything is still running just as it was pre 2015 version.....sigh. Do what the rest of us are doing and wait. He will get it worked out.

In defense of his reasoning there have been times that an error has popped up on my non-show computer at home, and given me some minor grief with a short "white out" because the song was not found. He is trying to prevent that from happening. Just thinking out loud but I bet he could grey out those erroneous songs in the history and not let them be selectable. Hang in there because it will be worth it.

Lost me, Lon. Except for generating reports, All of the above can be kept in skull or paper files. Key changes are recorded on the slips, and I have a record (skull or paper) of the singers songs and can help them find new songs, though that is almost never requested as they prefer to peruse the books.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Hi, dsm, and welcome aboard!

Actually, knowing the singer histories, whether by skull, paper, or PC, kind of gives you that information automatically.

I can tell you my trends from the top of my head for the last few decades. It's not even a skill, it just happens for all of us after awhile.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Ok, you are able to memorize each singer ( with up to maybe 350-400 individual song titles in their list alone) just as well the computer. Kudos! I'd rather not worry about trying to track of slips for each singer or have them remember to bring them in (which they often forgot). I'll just look at their history in a simple and quick search of their songs. Doesn't matter, history will never be an option for you, so no point in arguing.

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