Karaoke Forums

For the record, I like both of you very much, and we're very grateful to have your business and support. We will do our best to support all legal and compliant methods of running karaoke shows, one way or another.

Well, it's not surprising to see a squabble like this. Slep & Harrington have done so much in the last five years to fractionalize this market with KJ's that only fit their preferred contracted categories:
(1) Certified KJ's
(2) Gem licensees
(3) Help licensees
(4) ODB KJ's
(5) ODB "certified" KJ's

And now as they hold out their tin cup, there's an argument breaks out between #1 and #5 about who should be able to get what and even who has the right to ask for what.... because they're both sending their hard-earned money to the tin cup.

The arguments have already begun over production - and nothing's been produced yet.

Priceless... or "ominous" depending on your point of view.

It's a situation that was created and responsibility falls squarely on those that created the situation to start with. The comment above might as well say: "Now children, I love you both ('cause you sent in money)... stop fighting and I'll see if I can make everyone happy. Kissy, kissy, smooch, smooch"

Of course there's no definitive answer for either of them. Putting out the fire and hoping they'll forget about it is all that happens.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

Wow, if you erase any/all comments and then label what's left --which is nothing -- "angry comments" and call that "Jealousy," then I believe that's what the forum moderator's would classify as "trolling" Mr. Harrington.

But then again, you of all people, know exactly what that is and I'd expect you'd do your best to avoid it. Instead, you willfully initiate it.

Keep swingin' though.... you haven't hit anything yet....

Hi Harrington,

Not sure if you are taking suggestions here, but two songs I think would be interesting to cover would be Bruce Springsteen's Seeger Sessions recordings of Erie Canal and Froggie Went A-Courtin'

-sd

Regarding some of the FAQ's for the SC Advance series in Pep's website...



As most here know, I am old-school and somewhat technologically challenged. As far as me receiving a downloaded MP3+G file, I do know how to convert that MP3+G file to a zipped file and a BIN file, and how to take that BIN file and burn it onto a disc so that I have a CD+G. I would like to know, what is the difference between a disc made in MP3+G format as vs a CD+G? Can you take an MP3+G disc and play it in a regular CDG player (and see the word-swipes appear while the music is playing), or do you have to do some sort of conversion to the MP3+G disc and burn it onto another disc for that to work?

MP3+G are 2 files for every song: the audio mp3 file and the graphics or "cdg file" and sometimes, they are zipped together for convenience. Either way, the files must be reconverted back to a BIN file (binary) in order to be burned back to a disc in the standard CD+G format to play in your player.

I understand that MP3+G can be played in a very small number of players (the "Madboy Player" for example) but not in a standard CD+G player.

If Harrington won't provide you with a CD+G disc that will work in any standard machine, I'd be happy to convert it for you.... (Harrington wouldn't like that however, but if he's not going to give a customer what they need, I'll be glad to help you out.... for free.)

That was gratuitous. (That means it was a cheap shot.)

As cueball made clear, he already knows how to do what you're offering.

Then perhaps, just like your customer service guy, I was confused. (but not for 2 months)

Here's another --more technical -- definition if you are unclear too:

An mp3+g file is comprised of 2 files: an audio file in the form of an MP3 and a graphics file in the CDG format (subchannel bitmapped data). These files are converted and decoded "on the fly" by most computer systems to playback the file. There are players that do that as well, however the "Standard CDG format" used by most of the old school karaoke players consist of a standard redbook AUDIO file format which includes interleaved bitmapped graphic data encoded on the R-W subchannels which is decoded by the player's own decoding chip. It is a very "thin data stream" and therefore is very limited on what it can hold, decode and animate back in real time. That's why you don't see full-motion video on a "CD+G disc" either; the graphics are so "basic" using bitmapped technology that video resolution doesn't matter: a big block of color is a big block of color.

That's why a karaoke machine can playback a regular audio disc, it's virtually the same format with additional data (think of this as "tracks") that a standard cd player doesn't have to read and/or cannot read. With mp3+g file(s), a standard karaoke machine cannot read the data format of the cdg file even if (and most don't) it could play back the mp3. Some players, such as the "Madboy" brand would read an MP3+G files on a disc and play them back correctly. The old(er) AS-222 playback machines that Karaoke Warehouse used to sell could playback, mp3, cd+g and even video discs, but not mp3+g.

I'm happy to help out a friend.
(Sorry if that upsets you somehow.)

I don't need for you to explain A/V formats to me.

I was referring to the last bit of your previous post, the part you quoted. The "help" you are offering him is something he neither needs nor asked for, since, as he said, he knows how to convert to .BIN and burn.

We don't know what our licensing will look like. We believe we will be able to offer downloads, which need to be in MP3+G format because that's the prevailing technology. (I would much rather produce in H.264, since it doesn't have the restrictions inherent in CD+G or MP3+G, but very few if any karaoke software packages support it.) But that leaves original disc-based operators without a native-format option that most of them can use. So, if we are able to produce on physical media, and disc-based operators want a disc, we will produce one for them with a small surcharge to cover the cost of the raw goods and shipping. Or, if we can't do it ourselves, or if they don't want to pay the surcharge, they can download the MP3+G and convert it to .BIN and burn it themselves, and we'll give them express permission for that.

One of our goals is to get the new music we make into the hands of paying customers in the format they prefer. You obviously have a problem with that, because you're so angry at us you can't see straight. (That's OK; I'd be angry, too, if I had to scale back my business like you had to.)

My suggestion is to get with the times and offer HD video tracks. The CDG is old technology and is dead. SBI, Zoom, Sunfly, Karaoke Version and others, all offer these tracks which is MP4 (H.264). They've basically redone their libraries and offer all new releases in this format. This would be the way to go. The smooth graphics and interactive backgrounds of these HD tracks certainly blow away the ugly blocky text of CDG's. We need to go forward and adapt new and better technology. That is where it's at, embrace it. Go forward, don't stay in the past.

Basically, all of my newer releases for the past two years has come from one of these companies. When given the choice, I will always purchase the HD version every time.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I wasn't... It was a different explanation for Cueball's benefit... not you.


So? What do I care if you don't like the "help I was offering?" You're not Cueball are you?


Excuse me? You are saying you are taking money from customers - in advance, promising to deliver them product... for which you haven't even bothered to nail down licensing yet? You don't even know what format you'll be releasing this not-even-sure-of-the-licensing product will be?

We've been down this road before..... why am I not surprised?


Like that format's going to make a huge difference at "Joe's Bar & Grill" on a Friday night with $2 beers. (Is "Digi-PEP" in your future?) This is like putting more running lights on your car and thinking you'll go faster and get better mileage... It won't make a KJ an extra nickel, but you can "up-sell it" all you like.


I don't have a problem with that. As a matter of fact, I'm the one willing to help out your paying customer (free) as well remember? You're the one with the problem here..

Well, that and you admit you don't have even a clue as to what format you're really going to be able to deliver in.... because you haven't even bothered to ask even the large publishing houses about licensing... but you're happy to take KJ's money... in advance. That explains your "deliver in electronic format" statement because even a CDG disc is an "electronic format" embedded in a piece of plastic.


Why don't you pop up a little proof of your trash-talk counsel? (You didn't have a problem snooping on SmoothEdge and telling him what kind of vehicle he drives without cause.) Because you genuinely can't prove what doesn't exist.

But when it comes right down to "scaling back" I'd have to point squarely at Slep-Tone Entertainment... except I can't... They've scaled back so far they're no longer in business... and that's easy to prove.

No, it wasn't:



If you were providing "a different explanation for Cueball's benefit," why would you refer to "your customer service guy" and "you are unclear" in direct response to my comment?



This is a good example of how you lie.

You went from "don't have the licensing nailed down yet" to "haven't even bothered to ask even the large publishing houses about licensing."

You offered that latter statement as an unqualified assertion of a fact, and it's false. It's a lie.



I suppose that if you define an "electronic format" as one that involves electrons, a CD+G disc is an "electronic format," because CDs are made of matter, including electrons. (By that definition, a vinyl record is also an "electronic format.") But that's not the definition most people use. Perhaps you meant "digital." CD+G is a digital format.



Trash talk? Of course not. I was trying to show you some sympathy. All I know is, you had the little problem with the truck you needed to haul around seven karaoke systems (that's public record), then you found out we were suing people for multi-rigging, then you didn't have so many systems anymore, and you started crusading against us. That must have been tough on you.

You're right.. it was for Cueball's benefit AND you....
(Hint: look for the word; "too" below.)


Because I can be just as confused as your customer service guy. Unless you are reserving confusion only for your people and no one else on the planet can make a mistake without you getting a hair up your backside over it.


Simply an assumption based on your information of the lack of licensing formats -- which you want to now huff 'n puff cry; "lie!"


Hey, don't get another hair up your backside - YOU were the first to use the term "electronic format" to your customers, not me. I'm just trying to find out what that means since you're the one obviously being evasive about it.


Absolutely trash talk. And pretty childish too. You left out some very important information and facts in the chopped-up storyline you're attempt paint in a bad light... Not unusual for you.

I would be happy -- as an offering of reciprocity of course -- to show your client Slep-Tone Entertainment some sympathy too.... Because all I know is that they were in business.. then they got sued by EMI and then just before the trial, they went out of business. Unfortunately, it looks like your client had to scale back.... to oblivion.

The difference being that I'm still here. (Bet you didn't see that coming!)

Thanks for the suggestions. We also have a suggestion page on our website if you are so inclined.

I second this! The HD videos are what I primarily get these days.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Wrong. If you do that, you will fail. People need to move ahead and accept new and better technology.

Technology will always advance and as a company, you need to provide your customers with the latest and greatest, not something obsolete.

CD's replaced turntables, DVD replaced VCR's, HDTV replaced clunky glass picture tube TV's. The list goes on and on. While it's true that not all hosting software can play these formats, many can. So, like you upgraded your DVD for a BluRay player, upgrade your software to one that CAN play them. If you choose to stay in the past, that's your problem.

So, to SC I say; kill the CDG. It's over. If you continue to offer antiquated technology while everybody else offers the latest in cutting edge, you will not be able to compete for long with the other manufacturers that do offer it. Of course, this is just my personal and professional opinion.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I'm with you 100% on that. H.264 is a far superior format. If it makes sense, we will do it.

Well I don't think if they went MP3G they would fail but if I have a choice between the MP3G or a HD video file, i'll choose the HD video file everytime. Better yet just GIVE the choice between the 2.
Only drawbacks on video files is I don't think any of the softwares out their have the ability to sync the lyrics on the fly if they seem a little off (like Chartbuster and Sunfly always seem to be).

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I kinda thought Chip was explaining that to me... especially since I asked what the difference was.

@ Chip: Thanks for the offer, but as Mr. Harrington already noted (from my previous post), I do know how to convert both an MP3+G file and an MP4+G file to a BIN File and then to a disc to play on any CDG player.