Karaoke Forums

I love it! Nice job, Danny. Maybe the slogan for this software should be...
"helping the assholes climb to the top"

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Danny, your response is right on the money. Here we have software that caters to people who think they're above everyone else. Wow!

Is there anyone here who actually believes:

1. Their survey results are accurate.
2. This will help the industry.
3. This will get KJ's all the jobs they want.
4. This will make KJ's so much more money.
5. This will make KJ's much more successful than they already are.
6. They need this to run a successful show.

Anyone who answers yes to anyone of those would have to be either so naive, so gullible, or severely lack self confidence.

As Danny pointed out, the only thing this does is cater to the assholes.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

it will work for venues that do not have karaoke, but for the host who makes his living doing this...looks like we don't count. this is great software to do what Toqer did, let a bar run hostless.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Look my house up on Zillow. It ain't cheap to live here either. Not Silicon Valley pricing, but not Midwest either.

I have said before and I still believe there is a lot of potential for systems like your in the right venues. But I think they require more attention than perhaps you expected. Would 7Bamboo had the same run were you not working there in another capacity but still able to keep your eyes on things? Plus, if it worked so well, we would see systems like yours in places other than karaoke boxes.

I think you further solidified my point with your 3 venues above. You did not have the same success with the 3 venues. I can't speak to why not, but you have hinted at it above. They might have been successful if they were hosted and someone was there to catch the problems as they came up. Our systems are run by real people every night. We are on top of issues and can avoid the some of the problems of an unmonitored, automated system.

My point is that traditional, hosted karaoke works and works well. There are many things one can do to increase margins and be very profitable. There will be tech advances that will incrementally change karaoke and give KJ's tools to become more profitable. But no one has created that revolutionary system yet.

Technology like the KaraoQ app also have potential, but IMO they aren't looking at it from the right view. That app was created not for the KJ, but for the industry players (and of course to profit the app creators). I don't believe for a moment that they spent as much time with KJ's in a diverse enough set of geographies or they would have come up with a different model.

The upcoming Karaoke Summit promises to "...show KJs and hosts how they can potentially double, triple or even quadruple nightly revenue." Because "There’s a paradigm shift in karaoke entertainment that’s already begun rolling and the Karaoke Summit will showcase the opportunities and pitfalls."

Since the Karaoke Summit is basically being run by Digitrax, I predict there will be heavy promotion of Karaoke Cloud, the hosting apps that integrate with karaoke Cloud, and of course.....KaraoQ.

We will all get told that the landscape is changing and the only way we can make it is to get on board with their platforms. Or that by using their platforms we will be doing our part to help the industry. Meanwhile, there are still successful disc-slingers using printed books and paper slips.

I can spend 15 minutes with a $50/night KJ and give them the information they need to triple their rate. But that may require an investment they can't afford and perhaps relocating to a different geography. The Karaoke Summit is not going to be much help to KJ's that are already charging $175 or more a night.

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-Chris

Interesting . . . The forum software nanny feature has a problem with a single (@$%&#!) but is perfectly fine with a group of assholes. Safety in numbers maybe?

Chris "Ken Masters" Avis wrote:

Nope nope and nope.

I very clearly explained what happened at each venue. The issue was the venue owners themselves either not offering it to their customers. As said;

Venue 1 didn't use the equipment for their intended purpose (I can remote listen to the audio (teamviewer)) I heard something not my music playing one night, went down there, and was told by the guy with his Ipod plugged into my system that "We paid $75 to use the speakers" Stuff was pulled.

Venue 2, didn't offer it to their customers (but I flew the speakers, nobody had access to screw with them) The guy never offered it to his customers, never turned it on.

Venue 3, had a nice run of Monday nights for a year, even attracted weekend customers to the night. It was a falling out between the staff that got us in, and the venue owner. Had the venue owner allowed it to run on more "Prime" nights, I don't think they would have let the karaoke go, but karaoke was never their thing to start with, so who knows?

I am not trying to battle you

Again, I am not against technological solutions. I just believe in technology in the right place at the right time for the right task.

I don't believe that automated karaoke is the right thing for the average bar. For some, it may be a perfect fit. For most it is not. It is obviously not nearly as portable and scalable as traditional karaoke otherwise you could have it in 10 clubs making double what I am making (you would have no payroll). But I suspect that it is more hands on than that and trying to run 10 automated system would require more than just you to keep things running smoothly.

Regardless, I like the personal touch of a live host for a lot of reasons.

I am curious....Did 7Bamboo generate at least $1050/week in gross income every week (not average)? That would be the gross take on a 7 night a week show at $150/night before paying a host.

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-Chris

They were only open 5 nights a week, and would shutdown for 2 weeks while the owners flew back to Japan between Christmas and New Years.

Gross was about $5k a week. $7 for a Budweiser.

So, the bump feature in KaraoQ seems to be a hot topic. Calling it a bribe doesn't make sense. It's a bump up in the queue and that is it. It's a chance to pay to sing earlier. In my experience going to and running shows the night is a lot more fun if the host runs the show and not the crowd. If you have regular singers that have bad attitudes and will leave if you break an unwritten rule then let them go. They are the reason some bars can't make money. Venues need paying customers not freeloaders. I understand you want a following but you are allowing them to run your shows which isn't good for business if they aren't spending money when they are taking up space. I've taken tips to move people up in the rotation and not one person complained. It doesn't hurt the integrity of your shows if you are in control of the night. New patrons should be welcomed and not placed in the back just because the crowd doesn't know them. Give them a chance to pay to showcase their song. If they stink then the crowd will be extra tough on their ratings if they bumped to get a better spot in the queue. The bump feature can help the night by bringing new life to shows that you haven't seen before if the singer is good. It will get people talking and KJ hosts will interact with the crowd to explain the benefits of using the app. Once they hear what they could win, the customers will want to spend more money to get the rewards through the app. Tipping the DJ/KJ hosts, buying drinks/food and using the bump feature will earn them points for prizes if they are using the app to do these things. So don't try calling it a bribe to justify people being cheap. Karaoke shows are up to the host and not the crowd. I know we can't please everyone but don't write off the KaraoQ app if you don't like 1 feature, especially a needed feature. There are KJs out there that don't get paid enough to host their shows. This gives them a chance to make some extra money and gives them an advantage over other hosts that don't use the app. Customer rewards for spending money at karaoke bars can be huge for the hosts to get regulars that will actually make the bar money versus regulars that don't spend money and complain about everything that doesn't go their way. Do you have control over you shows? Do you want extra spending money? Do you want the venues you host to succeed? If you answered yes then this app is for you. If you answered no then you might want to get control, find another venue you actually like and let's face it everyone wants extra spending money. This app will change the karaoke industry for the better. I'm not going to BRIBE you to use it because it's your choice.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I am trying to get a picture of cost vs return with your automated system. Also, how revenue was generated in general.

A basic, hosted karaoke show would generate $750/week gross at $150/night. Was your take at least that each week at 7bamboo?

Don't part of the revenues come from each singer paying a buck or two to sing? Maybe a little more if they sing a track that has to be downloaded on the fly? Did any of that revenue get shared with the venue or did you keep all of that?

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-Chris

I'm not even going to justify the ridiculousness of your post with a response.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

What if the regulars are spending money? I have small groups that come out week after week. They eat dinner, and then drink for 2-3 hours. I am not going to piss them off in the hopes that some wahoo I may never see again will drop in and pay $100 for priority placement in the rotation (my minimum to even consider a bump and no one has ever paid it).

Actually, if the KaraoQ folks will let me set my own Bump pricing, I will be happy to implement it -

$133 puts you 3 away
$266 puts you 2 away
$399 puts you 1 away
$666 and I will stop the current singer and put you on stage right now

(All prices adjusted to account for the 25% fee being charged by KaraoQ)




Do all of your customers know that you will take cash to get bumped up? If not, that is just a different kind of favoritism. If everyone knows and they have no problem with it, so be it. If only a few people know they can slip you a few bucks then that is a direct reflection on integrity. All or nothing. Advertise you take money for priority placement or don't accept the practice.



Many of us already mix new singers into the rotation so they can get on stage at least once in the evening. So they are already getting priority placement without paying any money. We aren't going to alienate those people by charging them money for something we have done for free for years and years.

Ratings? I don't want anyone rating my singers. That is just drama waiting to happen. People can figure out all on their own who is a great performer and who isn't by just paying attention. I don't want to see a ranking system that people can use against each other. We have enough Facebook shaming going on without someone being able to point out that Bob is the worst ranked karaoke singer in the US.



What benefits!?!? We have yet to hear any direct benefits to the KJ of using the app except for the potential increase in income which many of us will not accept because of the negative impacts it would have on our shows.



What prizes? Nothing about that on the web site. Where do the prizes come from? Who is paying for the prizes?

The KaraoQ app doesn't even track JUST MY customers. It lumps them all into a giant worldwide database. How do I know if Chris A. is me or someone else? How can I track points and rewards for a unique person if they aren't unique? The current iteration of the app leaves the door wide open for abuse of any point/reward system.

Oh....why in the world would I want to promote the behavior of paying a host for preferential placement in the rotation just so a singer can get points towards some sort of prize anyway? All that means is that people with money are more likely to get a prize than people without; all the while pissing off customers who don't have money or simply don't feel it's right to have to pay for preferential placement.

Have you never stood in line for anything in your life?

Give us some real life examples of something a customer has won by using this app. What rewards have singers actually walked away with that make this so compelling?



I am calling it a bribe because that is exactly what it is. The cheap people won't be bribing.



If a host isn't getting paid enough, that is on them. Hosts have to prove their worth and justify their rates. No app is going to fix that for them.

If they are working in an economically depressed area that keeps rates low, what makes you think that customers in that area have the extra money to bribe their way yo the top of the list?

The app is more of a financial advantage for hosts that work in areas where customers have more discretionary income. A host in downtown LA will ALWAYS make more money with the app than a host in Spokane, WA.

If the advantage you speak of is purely financial, so what. The app in and of itself doesn't appear to draw customers into a venue and that is what venues want - more paying customers. In fact, it can't draw customers in unless customers know about it so it is currently in a chicken/egg scenario where they need us to promote their app so they can succeed.

The app doesn't solve any problems for KJ's that other apps don't.

We don't need the app, the app needs us.



Why do you think regulars don't spend any money? Historically it is EXACTLY the regulars that keep karaoke going because they are there every week spending money. Good hosts develop that loyalty in a variety of ways. One of those is running a FAIR rotation and not accepting bribes!!

It sounds to me like you would rather have regulars that will compete for bump placement than people that are there just to have a good time.



Yes.



Silly question. For many of us that is exactly why we got into this business in the first place.



Most of my venues have been around 15+ years. They are already successful. My karaoke shows are well attended and people spend money. They are successful.



So without this app, control, success, and extra money aren't possible? I have 30 years of proof against that.....



Who would answer no to any of those questions!?!?



My prediction -

This app will not reach mass appeal so long as the Bump feature is mandatory. Too many hosts will simply not use it if Bumping appears anywhere in the singer interface because it goes against how they run their shows.

If they remove that feature in lieu of a subscription model, then the app has to provide some other material benefit to the KJ. I have a tip jar that doesn't keep 25% of what it put in. Oh.....and many hosts don't accept tips anyway. So what else does the app do that can't be done without it that adds real value and puts real money in a KJ's pocket?

This app is going directly against the established industry practice of running a fair rotation by turning karaoke into a money making venture for people that don't seem to really understand how karaoke works across most of the US.

I have had conversations with every host that works for me (10 of them). I pointed every one of them at the KaraoQ site and asked them what they thought. Every single one of them panned it.

That may be because I have made it perfectly clear that boobs, bulges, booze and Benjamin's do not impact the rotation. But not a single one saw any other redeeming quality in the app or felt it was a must have.

As a former marketing person, I can appreciate the concept of putting lipstick on a pig to dress it up and make it more desirable.

Under all that lipstick, it is still a pig.

Finally - I am pushing back so strongly because there is no real evidence backing up anything you have claimed. I have watched the marketing videos, as well as videos of presentations at a few of their events. It seems to be more beneficial to the karaoke companies and record labels and perhaps venues than to KJ's.

Again, they needs us more than we need them.

Provide some case studies of KJ's that are doubling their income (averaging $300/night) and you will get a lot of us to listen.
Provide some case studies showing that the app attracts and retains PAYING customers and you will get us to listen.

I am still waiting for my email with these questions to be answered.....

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-Chris

OK... I'll bite. What money is going to the Venue when the Bump Feature is used? That money is going to the KJ (less the 25% commission KaraokQ is taking off the top), NOT the Venue.





Chris, I'll add another point to your argument...

Based on this scenario of 25 people waiting to sing (which is a 2 hour rotation), if someone walked in and was placed at the end of the queue (which is where they would normally be placed), and they wanted to sing after the Number 2 position, they would have to pay $3 per each person they wanted to be BUMPED ahead of (13 places from # 26 to # 3) for a total of $69. If I were to spend $69 just to sing right away (instead of waiting 2 hours for my turn), I would very likely NOT be spending any more money in that place for the rest of the night. Plus, knowing that I would not have an opportunity to do that twice in the same evening, I probably would leave after I sang. YUP!!!! THAT VENUE SURE DID MAKE A LOT OF MONEY OFF OF ME!!!! NOT!!!!!

I forgot to ask......

How much success have you had with this app?
Are you making at least $300/night EVERY NIGHT after combining what the venues pays you with your real life tip jar and the money paid to you through the KaraoQ app?

I say $300 because the marketing for Karaoke Summit is saying "We’re keen to show Karaoke Jockeys and show hosts how they can double, triple or even quadruple their nightly revenue." (https://karaokesummit.wordpress.com)

My guess is that there will be heavy promotion of KaraoQ (and of course KaraokeCloud) to make that happen.

I can be bought. If they can show me how to increase my nightly take to $700/night I will be all over it.

$700/night * 1664 shows a year = $1,164,800 a year! (tongue firmly in cheek)

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-Chris

One more thing.....

I am a multi-op.

What benefit do I receive as owner of the business if the HOSTS are the ones receiving the tips?

Do you suggest I cut their nightly rate and allow them to make it up with tips and bumps?

Or do I now have to go to the effort of tracking tips and bumps for 32 shows a week and distributing that to my hosts along with a full accounting to ensure they know I am not ripping them off and they can do their taxes properly?

Or do I just have to accept that all tip and bump money goes to the host which helps their bottom line but not mine? (even though I am the one having to manage the app)

Perhaps I have blinders on, but I just cannot reconcile how this app will benefit me, my hosts, my venues and my singers without sacrificing something else I feel is integral to running a well-respected karaoke show.

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-Chris

With all the discs I own I could easily have 3 to 4 legal rigs and if I could double my current rate I'd definitely think about coming out of retirement

usually the ones with bad attitudes are the ones who get mad if i DON'T take a bribe and bump them up. granted, those are 3-4 per year so i DO let them go.


let me understand this...
if i do not allow singers to move themselves up in the rotation i am "allowing them to run my show"
if i DO let them move themselves wherever they want in the rotation then i am NOT "allowing them to run my show"
.................
if you let them bribe you (which you don;t as you do not run karaoke obviously, just make an app. though why you are creating new logins is a diferent story) then you are not in any control of the night. THEY tell you when they will sing and THEY tell you when their friends will sing. as it stands now without this app, WE as real hosts tell the singers when they sing nd WE tell them when their friendss will sing. that is being in control of the night.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

It seems to me that Mistaken0978 has either never hosted karaoke a day in his life or works for KaraoQ or both. Why would you support something that can only hurt KJ's, Venues and your customers? Why would you only cater to singers with deep pockets? Why would you cater to the Divas and those who think their above everyone else? With that attitude, I seriously doubt you have any clue what it's like to be a "real" host.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

As I predicted......the Karaoke Summit will be a marketing ply for Karaoke Cloud and KaraoQ.

https://karaokesummit.wordpress.com/dig ... t-venture/

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-Chris

aaaaaannnnndddddd....my surprised face

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens