Karaoke Forums

I won't be using the program with the bump feature at all. Not my cup of tea.

All I am saying is that it *will* work for some people, but I do not believe it will work for a majority of traditional US karaoke shows.

Just like some hosts use remote song submission apps and others don't.
Just like some hosts use online songbooks and others use printed books.

If you don't think it will work in your venue, then don't use it. Don't get your kickers in a twist if other hosts use it and are successful. This app is not going to see massive adoption any more than any single karaoke hosting software or any other karaoke related app has.

There is a lot of room in the karaoke market for this kind of app and karaoke.

You can also choose to buy into the marketing pitch or not.

_________________
-Chris

You don't really need an application to take money for bumps...

Just put out a price list:

------------------------------
$5 MOVE UP 1 SONG
$10 MOVE UP 3 SPACES (12 mins)
$20 SING IN 2 SONGS
$50 SING NEXT
$100 STOP the current singer and take their place
-------------------------------

Since when do you need a computer program to do that?

Hey, I think you forgot one...
$500 Send everyone home and sing all night.

_________________
Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

AND keep it all no 20 to 30 % deduct!

I have a tip jar. I like tips. Tips are nice. Unfortunately, if you come to my show, tips do NOT move you around the rotation. They are an appreciation f the service I am doing, just like a bar tender,is all. I thank the people, but that is all they get.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The bad thing is if it starts becoming accepted anywhere, the idiots think it should be accepted everywhere and we are the bad guys for trying to maintain at a least a bare minimum of respectable behavior.

Look at rotation salting . . . Somewhere in the dark ages of karaoke someone bitched that other singers had already sung disregarding completely the fact that those people were there early and have been waiting their turn to sing again for over an hour and you just now showed up.

Instead of telling them "you sing in the order you signed up . . . PERIOD", some kj's began salting and we now have the quagmire of 50 million different rotation methods where there is no simple standard.

Show me ONE other activity where being late gets you to the front of the line.

Now with sport bumping and singer degradation they want to push us to an even lower standard.

I want to be successful but I will not sacrifice integrity for greenbacks.

Hey Chris, we wanted to reply quickly when we saw this. Our onboarding specialist had feedback that once some additional features and revisions were in the app, you would want to launch. We have you in our onboarding process and set to a Hold status. If you would like to start running at one of your venues, please let us know and reach aaron@hiVolu.me and we will get you enabled in KJConnect.

Let us know if you have any questions!

Regards

Alan, thank you for your feedback and perspective. We would simply observe that using blanket statements such as "most of the KJs on this forum" are invalid - in that there are thousands of users registered on KaraokeScene, only a few hundred have been signed on at one time, and only a small % (a dozen or so - maybe less) seem to consistently share feedback or opinions - and some even seem diverse or on the fence.

That being said, just as DigiTrax pointed out, karaoQ is about much more than paid BUMPs. Patrons can get BUMP credits by returning to the venue repeatedly, performing highly and consistently, participating in specials/promotions at the venue (which drives more revenue to the venue itself), special on-screen shoutouts from major label artists, gamification modes (dares/challenges).

It's simply NOT just about BUMPS. And BUMPS are not bribes. Bribes are done behind the veil, behind the curtain, giving one person an unfair advantage over someone else, without the other knowing.

In this case, we create what it seems a few of you are afraid of - TRANSPARENCY. Transparency to the patron to know who is singing what, and when - when their time to shine on stage is, and the ability to get the amazing voice in the corner of the bar to sing a ballad sooner - or for a 15 year married couple ready to head home to pick up the kids after date night anxiously wanting to have fun on stage before they head out - or to the patron who now visits the bar 3, 5, 10 times a month because of the specials, promotions, and incentives he/she earns through using the app, or for the performer who wants to utilize the app for talent recognition and continues to push themselves with each performance to get better ratings time and time again .... or simply to be able to quickly sign-up without going to a songbook and know where they are in the queue without distracting the KJ.

People can make it just about BUMPS (not bribes) .. but as DigiTrax points out, it is so much more than that. And as other partnerships get announced (tune into the Summit to learn more about just a few them), then you will understand that this isn't about who has more money - its about creating an experience and providing technical innovation in an industry that sorely needs it (and that is coming from IBIS industry reports, DJ/KJs in residence who work with us, over 100 DJs that were surveyed since January 2015, and the nearly 5,000 active patrons (and growing) who use the platform every month.

As DigiTrax said - tune into the Summit next Thursday at 1PM EST to learn more - or don't. That's up to you. But we look forward to creating value for patrons, KJs, and Venues - all of which must be given value in order for this triangular experience to be of benefit.

A KJ can only be as successful as he makes it for the venue and the patrons - if the patrons aren't happy, it hurts the venue and they will want to change the experience. If the venue isn't happy and isn't getting long dwell times, repeat patronage, and moving drinks, they simply will go a different direction. Likewise, if a KJ is working for cash tips, if he simply cannot sustain (Hint: MOST people do not carry cash - and usage of debit/credit cards and digital payment methods are now more prominent than ever), then he has to seek ways to bolster his own business or give way to another experience.

We don't believe karaoQ is meant for everyone. We know some will use it - some won't (not most, as you decide to state based on a few observations of an even smaller percentage of those actually replying and posting), but just like Netflix, Spotify, Uber, Lyft, Pandora, and others have proven -- its about personalization and on-demand experiences, and leveraging data and psychographics to make better business decisions. I'm not sure how you quantify your patron satisfaction through TRUE measured results (yes, even if it's 15 patrons a night for 3 nights a week - things should be trackable and quantifiable), but we are making those available to KJs, venues, and creating captive marketing channels to help them grow their business.

We aren't making assumptions in vacuum. We've surveyed. We've interviewed. We've piloted and beta tested. We have a collective of a dozen or so KJs across the United States in very different markets that are helping steer the product with real-world usage and feedback and speaking with their venue owner and patrons - we even collect feedback directly in the app upon check-out of the venue.

All that to say - we don't pretend to speak for every KJ or venue or patron, and I think in being fair, you should compare your own comments to the broader reality.

And an open suggestion: Any KJs that would like to cross-interview some of the KJs or Venue Owners that use karaoQ today, feel free to reach me at michael@hiVolu.me and I will personally get you in touch with those who can speak of the benefits they've already seen.

See you all at the Summit!

Those who innovate will replace those who don't. This industry, overall, seems to shun change and technology. There are thousands of KJs that are not on this forum and that will embrace new ideas. The karaoke industry is aging quickly, majority of KJs are old white guys (and I am one as well) and the older singers who carried the shows are no longer coming to sing.

The next generation of singers will like these ideas and will respond by coming out to sing, socialize and spend money. If you are offering the
Same experience they can get in their living room, you will not be in business much longer.

Instead of bashing the ideas, wait and see what they have to offer and see if it can make you more money.

This is David G. from the marketing department at DigiTrax.

I just wanted the readers of this forum to know that the gentleman who's been replying to you (Joe V.) has been through more than one rodeo in the karaoke and music space. He was the first to bring karaoke to New York City back in the 80's, and even when hundreds told him it would never work, he soon had 60 venues running his systems. His company created and marketed the very first DJ software, and even when hundreds of the old guard told him DJs would never use software to run their shows, he saw skyrocketing sales, and now there's not a DJ around who doesn't rock a laptop. You should really check out his LinkedIn profile if you doubt his bona fides.

I and everyone else in this company don't follow him because we are making tons of money, or because we couldn't find a higher-paying gig elsewhere. We follow him because we trust his vision. We trust his ability to innovate. And we trust he knows a winning idea when he sees one.

I'm only just learning about the karaoQ team, but everything I've seen from them is saturated with the same credibility. They work hard, they work smart, and they understand how to build a successful business from the ground up. I can't think of a team I'd rather be working with.

If the idea of putting money in your own pocket as a result of bumps (really, such a small part of the karaoQ system) leaves a bad taste in your mouth, that's fine. Donate the money it generates to charity. I suggest breast cancer awareness, or the ALS foundation. Singing a few slots earlier is a darn sight more enjoyable than a 5k run or sitting under a bucket of ice water.

I've seen a poster here dismiss the business process that karaoQ has been through as "corporate bullshit". I would ask that poster to go through the same process before throwing words like that around. Having participated in a parallel program myself, I can say from personal experience that it's pretty much the opposite of corporate bullshit. Read "The Mom Test". Read "The Lean Startup". Imagine creating your own business under these principles, then imagine you are being mentored by a panel that makes the Shark Tank look like molly-coddlers. Hear them strip down every single idea, shoot down every single unsupported assumption, and put every tiny detail of your business model under a searing light and a microscope. And an unimpeachable part of that process is "getting out of the building" i.e. talking to your customers and getting real data from them that can't be dismissed as wishful thinking.

If you survive the process (many don't!), you emerge from that crucible without any pie-in-the-sky fly-by-night ideas and "corporate bullshit" left to lean on. It's certainly no guarantee of success, but the companies that have been through the program and those like it have a much higher chance to be successful.

Anyway, it's late here, and I have another long day tomorrow. You could choose to interpret what I've said above to be marketing speak, or brown-nosing, or whatever. And that's fine - you're going to believe what you're going to believe. But to those of you who are still able to maintain an open mind, I urge you to tune in to the Summit on October 22. I promise we'll have some new ideas for you to work with. What you've seen so far is only the tip of the iceberg. When you understand how the whole system works, you'll know how all the moving parts fit together.

It's really quite amazing how all the stakeholders in the karaoke business (including some new ones) can be a lot more successful than they are now. And that includes you.

David Grimes
Marketing Manager
DigiTrax Entertainment

Interesting insight, but I doubt that you will be donating your 25%,eh? Hmmmmmm

May I suggest that the participation of KaraoQ and Digitrax in this forum might be received better if you didn't pop in here just to promote your own services and the Karaoke Summit.

I know the Digitrax account has been around since 2010, but with the exception of the random post about copyrights in March of this year, there was nothing posted for 2 years.

It will be interesting to see how often you join in the conversations AFTER the summit wraps up.

_________________
-Chris

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we're not the ones who tried to take a moral high ground by refusing money that customers want to throw at you in exchange for improving their karaoke experience. We'll use our fraction of the money to build our business and put food on the tables of the people who work hard to make our companies successful.

We suggest that you do the same, but if you think that makes you some sort of robber baron, by all means donate your proceeds to the Ronald McDonald House. I personally have a hard time believing someone's feelings are going to be hurt if they get jumped over by another singer who donated $30 to make sure a family has a safe place to stay while their child is in town getting chemo at St. Judes.

DG

You might be surprised, i have seen people get bent out of shape over the stupidist of things. have you read the news clippings about someone who ended up in a barfight because someone got to sing 'my way' which they considered 'their song? Granted, it happened in the phillipines where that song is a hell of a lot more popular but i still see oretty much the same thing over other songs on a frequency that boggles the mind

i've also seen people throw MAJOR hissy fits because someone got placed ahead of them even tho it meant that they actually got to sing more because they came earlier.

I have actually been to a bar that had one of those home karaoke machines with the old style 'rating" cdg machine. The result was a full scale bar brawl that almost escalated into a riot. The police and EMTs had to be called, and 22 people ended up in the hospital.

and that's just from my limited personal exerience.


-james

Chris, I respect you, but seriously, take a look around. This forum used to be a place that hosted a lot of different viewpoints. It's not like that anymore.

I've been doing online forums since before there was an internet. I was the de facto moderator for a general chat forum (back then we called them "echoes") that included the entire Chattanooga metropolitan area. I understand how forums work, and I've been monitoring this one for six years.

Over time, this one has become an echo chamber where the participants tend toward confirming one another's biases. One by one, any dissenting voices have gone off to find greener fields. That's not anyone's fault, or even necessarily a bad thing in and of itself - it is, after all, just another form of entertainment, right? It's just the way these things work.

However, it's not a productive use of our time to spend a great deal of effort here when we know in advance that new ideas are likely to be met with ridicule. We're trying to offer a system that we have field tested and strongly believe will make a KJ's business more money, and for the most part we're getting it thrown back in our faces. I've seen posts directed at us relying on ad hominem, reductio ad absurdum, the fallacy of the excluded middle, and no end of straw men and snark. I've seen mock outrage, refusals to examine independent supporting viewpoints, and just plain hostility.

I understand where it comes from. It's fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of change. Fear of failure. I feel those things too, I just try not let them paralyze me into a knee-jerk hostile reaction when someone tries to wake me up to the fact that the world is changing, and I should probably try to adapt and evolve before I go extinct. Sometimes I succeed. Being human, sometimes I don't.

Aristotle said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I don't see a lot of that around here. I see a lot of closed minds who are afraid we are about to upset their status quo, never realizing that the static world they think they love is an illusion, if it ever existed at all. And that makes me sad, most of all because we're trying to help entertainment entrepreneurs get back ahead of the curve. We're not doing it entirely out of altruistic motives - the primary function of a business is to make money. But we're offering a rising tide to lift all the boats. We want you all aboard when it does, because your success and our success are linked.

So if you want to know why we don't spend a lot of time posting here, then scroll up, man. Nobody stays long where they aren't wanted.

But I'm trying hard, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.


DG

No I will not compromise the integrity of the rotation thereby destroying the patrons karaoke experience, or compete with the very venue that chooses to hire me, by stealing revenue from the pockets/wallets of their patrons by being able to be bought. If I'm going to sell my soul... Well, I just won't do that. But yet another creative con, to get more & more $$ post sale/lease, even if it is only 25%, plus whatever other fees you're collecting from sales & membership.
Besides the degradation to a KJ's rotation & destroying self confidence in ratings, I consider it an unnecessary encouragement of entitled little Divas, whose daddies buy their happiness, which is destroying what we used to consider basic etiquette & morality.

Yeah, James, I've seen those reports from overseas. I keep a pretty close eye on any time the word "karaoke" is used in the news. Seems like "My Way" brings out the worst in some people. I think that song's been the impetus for at least three incidents, including a fatal stabbing. I have no idea why.

I'll tell a secret - the first time I heard the bump idea, I flashed back to the same kind of incidents you described above. I held my reservations to myself because I wanted to see the whole thing in action. So I went to one of the test venues to see for myself.

To my surprise, the bumps were not just taken in stride, they were gamified. People were bumping each other as much or more as they were bumping themselves. Friendly rivalries were breaking out between individuals, tables, and singer supporters, who competed with each other for spots in rotation, star ratings, and more. It was like watching a church league softball tournament, only with more alcohol.

Here's a truism for you: people looking for a good time will find a good time. People looking for trouble will find trouble. There's not much you can do about the latter, but you can make good money catering to the former.


DG

Here's your new company slogan . . .

"Enabling humanity to be even more inhumane."

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I sincerely hope you, and your product, fail miserably.

The fact that you cannot, or will not, recognize a bribe for what it is, and then try to legitimize and capitalize on the practice, speaks volumes about your lack of integrity.

Most of the patrons I see at karaoke shows get more than their fill of being treated like (@$%&#!) at work.
The last thing they want is to get the same treatment at a karaoke show.

That's pretty harsh. There are almost two dozen people who depend on their paychecks to put food on their tables for their families, here.

Your fear runs deep indeed. You are not just indifferent to our product, or prefer to use something else, or nothing at all; you actually actively want our employees to starve, to protect yourself from the threat of change. At the same time, you purport to lecture us on integrity and humaneness. I'm not certain you are human.

And Chris wonders why we don't frequent this forum more often.



I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't understand what a "bribe" is - a clandestine transaction intended to secure an unfair advantage. Bumps are an exchange of currency for value, in a transparent marketplace where the same rules apply to everyone. That's called commerce.

As I said above, if the bumps stick in your craw, donate your portion to charity. If you want to claim the moral high ground, then the opportunity exists for you to prove you deserve it.


DG

Sure but for a person to arrive, who has a higher rating, or money to burn, to be able to jump ahead of loyal patrons who are in line already is an unfair advantage. Example, I go to the DMV & take my number like everyone else, I don't venture to guess that I could pay to get ahead in line, or run a red light, because I can just pay the police officer to allow it. It is without question - a bribe, or favoritism.