Karaoke Forums

"A dick way to put it?" Wow, your marketing manners and language is astounding. But sure, you're "interested in him as a customer" because you want him to send you money... but you've already stated that there's really no place for him other than "training and equipment discounts."

And let me highlight where you're speaking with a forked tongue: So what? But, even that is not the truth, because it's nothing more than a 3-card monty:
In order to "save" $425.00 on the gem discs
one must "spend" $349.00 on the prime program
making the "real savings" only $74.00
Big whoop and no real surprise here. And your "prime program" is nothing more than "vaporware" at this point. No matter how much you want to proclaim "other benefits" it's just not currently real. You might be convincing some newbies about future training, but seriously, you're not about to teach me (or any of the old-timers here) anything new - we already learned it, and we learned it the hard way. What credentials do you or anyone on your staff, have regarding "hosting karaoke shows?" Nothing.

And "duh" your "program" should keep up with what is discounted and what is no longer discounted. Even I can post a bunch of discounts and don't have to care when or how long they'll be valid. It's apparently your way not following through on what is, what isn't, or even what will be discounted for your own customers. Not surprising.

"may elect?" As in "maybe, sort of, if we decide to but haven't yet?" Yeah, right... and I "may elect" to start selling real estate plots on the moon... it should be ready to go as soon as your "other project you're working on" or whenever you decide to put out current music is in full swing.... But there are no "guarantees" on when either of those are going to happen either, so I'm not in a hurry but I'll accept cash reservations make promises to finance it anyway....

(You do realize that over the last few months, the ONLY thing you've given any kind of realistic and/or concrete time frame for is..... lawsuits.)
Hilarious political doublespeak: "as we ramp up", "will be constantly working on", "will eventually be built out" and none of it is anything more than empty, frilly words without even as much as a single title of the "training materials" you are claiming "have already [been] developed."
Based on your past history, there won't be any rush of anything anytime soon.

Because you haven't had any interest by March 28th? You're already adding "incentives?"

So much interest in fact, you've already added the additional "3 month incentive" in order to get anyone to sign up by April 15th because if there really was as much interest as you'd have us believe, you wouldn't need another "incentive."

Marketing ignorance and failure rolled into one.

I've already stated my personal opinions on the matter. If the training materials and courses mention actually materialize, i may change my mind. Right now, i am reluctant to make ANY purchases from US based companies, because the exchange rate has become a real detriment to the cost of dealing with them. It's hasn't quite gotten to double, but its pretty damned close.

What really concerns me is where PEP has placed their priorities. Music, which is something i would have been extremely interested in, provided it was NEW never done music, seems to have fallen by the wayside.

There seems to be money for trademarks, money to buy equipment, money to train people to provide services but when it comes to new music, it's nothing but delays, failed promises and in the end no new product

Now i realize, that to a certain extent it is not completely their fault, based on all the stupid crap that has been been going on with the publishers lately, i am not at all surprised at how difficult it might be to obtain new licenses for a reasonable amount of money. But after almost six years, i am seriously starting to question whether making decent new music is even a goal at all, let alone a so-called priority

just saying

-James

Looking at the PRIME PLATINUM items to see whats useful for the "old" people (Self Included):

Equipment Discounts & Rebates: As I've said: NO ONE Pays list around here, even the mom and pop stores don't go full MSRP. Will your prices match/beat that of a national chain? How fast would I get them if your partner isnt in my area? Also considering that we already OWN our gear already, the usefulness of this would solely be based on components we own that went down and need a quick replacement. I can't speak for other people on here, but I only lost one Mackie C300 speaker since I started this business, everything else (save computer upgrades) pretty much is still with me. Cables being what they are last for years with proper care. I find this "Benefit" has Zero Value

Access to National Booking: I find this funny only because you have already made it clear that this items is for "pros", who might have all the work they already can get. I work 4-5 days a week, at least 2-3 double shifts a month and even have a DJ rig separate from karaoke, plus a new upcoming karaoke rig for light work via a new host. Seems I'm close to overbooked as it is. I'm sure many others on here who are old timers have as much work as they want. And remember, Access to doesn't make it mine without an audition, etc. Finally, I don't know who your clients are (lots of DJs are proud to list them), or what straight up how much money I am going to make if its worth my time to do it. Finally, and I'll spin this positive, you won't take gigs in registered members backyards. If Smooths convo has any weight to it, you might have to pass up on gigs simply because a registered member is close by. I find this "Benefit" has Zero Value as well.

Co-Promotion Materials: "Hello Mr. Bar Owner, can you get Bud Light to make us a karaoke sign please? You can? Thanks. ::waits a week:: "Look at that 3x8 sign that says Karaoke with Toastedmuffin every Tuesday night at 8pm!, Awesome" Cost to me and the bar Zero bucks. Value of Benefit, Zero

Extra 10% Music Access: From where? how? this is cryptic. If it's from you you don't have music. Since I have no clue what this means... I will leave the value at TBD

singtonight.info access: "Might be temporarily down or it may have moved....". I can't even look at it to see if it worth it or not. Value: $0

50 Advance Credits: Worth approximately $150 using 10 credits for $30 from Advanced presale. But.... no music so its worth $0: Value $0 unless songs come out.

Training Courses: Google/Youtube is FREE and probably show you whatever you need to know and be more specific about it. Value $0 (Unless you can't use Google/Youtube to save your life)

And Much More: Free Cigar of the month? Birthday cake on your birthday? Mixer trick of the day? We just don't know... and since its a lumped as an "and more" it probably doesn't have much to offer anyway. Value $0

So you want the best people to work for you, that fine. but have them come down, audition them and then GIVE them stuff that makes those people stand out. Not make them pay for a service they most likely wont use, or need.

I believe in calling a spade a spade. No other word adequately conveys the manner in which you chose to characterize the point. But if your eyes are too sensitive to read that word without fainting, please accept my apologies.



I was under the impression that virtually all commercial enterprises are interested in their customers because their customers send them money. Did I miss where that became a controversial point? We aren't operating a charity.



I've stated that those two items might be of interest. I also said that not everything we offer is appropriate for every customer. Again, I'm not seeing the controversy. If he wants to join the program, fine. If he doesn't, also fine.



Here's another example of a situation where I don't think you really understand what that phrase means.



I think pretty much everyone understood that point. If you are planning to license the GEM series, you can join the program, get the 10% discount, and save more than the cost of the program, leaving you $74.00 better off than you were, plus you get all the benefits of the program.



Everything is vaporware until it isn't.



You must have missed where I said that we hired a very experienced KJ—who also has experience in radio, sales, acting, and audio and visual production—to help run this project.



This is so ridiculous I can't even...I just can't even.



No, as in "we're constantly negotiating special deals for our members, that may take various forms depending on what we're able to negotiate; when we do, we'll make those deals available."



Yeah, it's rare for companies who have a new product to offer early-adopter incentives. Or not.

The bottom line here is that we could be offering free BJs and blank checks and you'd find a way to criticize it. If you're not in therapy, you really should consider it.

If only you had some recourse against us forcing you to pay good money for all these "worthless" services...

You don't have to put "worthless" In quotes... they truly are worthless unless you actually have something to give people. Right now, all I see is money for nothing but promises. It's up to you to prove what most of see as wrong, not us. Show me the discounts, the past bookings you done,a song catalog, some sample videos of your training stuff.. even movies put out a preview to get people interested, not just words.

And your right, I don't want or need it, but I think you'll see many others that won't either. And considering your advertising history, you won't reach the people who actually want/benefit from the product. (Speaking of, wheres that Chartbuster stuff you said would be out before you start suing people? Links?)

Want us to get on your side, stop wasting time with BS pie in the sky stuff and make some karaoke tracks. I got plenty of cash that is just BEGGING to be spent on new releases, classic tracks, hard rock, etc. Right now PEP pretty much has the market all to themselves with no SBI, Zoom available to download, so your answer is to... not get some music out?. And yes, I'd be right at the front of the line, because as much as I think your company is run like a joke, I will shut up about it and let you laught all the way to the bank with m money. So why not do something thats pretty much going to MAKE you money instead of people looking at you going "whyyyyyyyyyyy?!?!?!?"

Actually, we do have music to license to people, and I've already explained how the price of membership can be fully covered, and then some, by the discount for that music.

If you're a PRIME PLATINUM member (currently $349/year), you get a 10% discount on music. The discounted price of the GEM series is $4250 if you pay in full, so that becomes $3825. If you pay over time, a typical price is $750 down, $198/month for 24 months. That becomes $675 down, $178/month for 24 months, saving you $555 over a two-year period.



We've sent out a couple of targeted emails, and we're planning to send out one to a much larger database (n=~3000) very soon. We prominently featured the program at our booth at Mobile Beat Las Vegas. We're assembling a list of Facebook groups to post to, and we'll do that shortly, and we'll also run a FB promotion.

Most importantly, we have not sued one single person based on CB.



You don't seem to understand that merely putting out tracks isn't guaranteed to make us money. The fact that you are willing to pay for music doesn't make it profitable for us. Most people are happy to use our stuff for free, but when they get asked to pay, few are willing.

Between licensing costs, production, and marketing expenses, it costs us between $700 and $1300 per song to put out music. Net of bulk discounts and royalties, we have to sell somewhere between 400 and 800 copies just to break even. That might not sound like a lot, but the universe of people we're willing to sell to is only about 1,000 potential copies. (The only way we can effectively prevent piracy is by limiting sales to people who are very unlikely to allow the music to be pirated.) As you can see, that's a very difficult business case to make, so we're working on altering the parameters a bit. If we knew, without a doubt, that we would break even, we'd be all over that. We're not there yet.

Yes, if you don't HAVE a GEM set. What is a person already has it, or doesn't want or need it? Do you plan on sending people who buy into PRIME with a GEM set already a refund? I don't think so.



Sure, MBLV is awesome (More awesome when your a DJ honestly) but we know that only so many people hit those.

I believe you, but you DO plan on suing for use of the trade dress at some point in the near future, if i remember correctly, you will do it in tangent with finding Sound Choice Material. But eventually you'll find the need to sue for it on its own merits. I've been talking with other KJs and you know how many of them knew that you even OWNED Chartbuster? 2 out of at least 10 I've talked to. I'm just keeping your feet to the fire about making sure that word gets out is all. Sorry if you don't like someone holding you accountable as NOTHING on any CB product sold gives anyone information that you now own the product.



Well that's a risk every artist faces too... and they get pirated by the millions! If they thought the risks were too great, we would not have any music anymore.

Every business works on risk vs reward. Yes you are in a market where digital copies are a problem, so brainstorm ideas about how to make each sold copy unique. I even thought of a way it might be done in mind, not that i know how to code it. want to know? PM me and we can talk about it.

Someone mentioned 'priority' in an earlier post. They thought 1st would be production. I agree and so do most of the rest of us. It should be but maybe 1st they need capital to bring that about. I continue to say PEP is in trouble and Floundering. Why else the failed crowdfunding offer?

Mr Harrington need not respond to this with doublespeak as it will not change my opinion.

To ensure their lasting footprint, they got plans for Venues (whether legals or illegals) and KJs in their fold. It involves income. Their income. Mark my words, they WILL become competition for those that wish not to be PRIME PLATINUM members. It may even evolve into karaoke juke boxes and equipment for the venue at discount. Why not?

Who does not agree that they have let pirates off by, even in locales like mine where no suits have come up, securing a GEM license without so much as an audit? In CO, only I and Sandman have passed an audit. Sandman, unlike me, secured GEM licensing, too. No one else here submitted to audit, yet they get mention on the website. Could they not still be pirating SC material? Therefore, a sprinkling of Holy Water and protection money, hush money.

I have lost any real trust I had in them and now view them very skeptically and rightfully so. I read the same from most of the rest of you.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

We will probably eventually sue people for it, but with one category of exception, we don't have specific plans to bring any suits. It will take time to get people fully on notice of what's going on.

The one exception is hard drive sellers. We have a new suit teed up against a person who's selling preloaded HDs with SC and CB tracks on them, and I'm about to file it.



I understand where you're coming from, but query: What difference does it make who owns the trademarks? Are you suggesting that it's OK to pirate CB materials if one company owns them, but not if it's Phoenix?



We've already solved that problem. (Unlike one of our prominent critics, we know how to make unique digital watermarks on downloadable tracks, and we will be doing that instead of just saying it was done.) But that measure is only effective if it's backed with other anti-piracy measures. We don't have the resources to police every possible use. It's questionable whether we have the resources to police even 20% of the piracy that exists in the commercial market. Right now, the risks are too high and the rewards are too low.

But, to point out something to you, if our new Sound Choice Entertainment division has 500 rigs (owned or hired) in operation around the country, which we think is doable in the space of a couple of years, we know with certainty that we can recoup our production and licensing costs for everything we put out, and that risk goes to zero. (That doesn't mean we're waiting 2 years to start, just that we see that as the time horizon.)

We catch a lot of flak from certain individuals who think we don't know what we're doing. Much to the contrary, we know exactly what we're doing. We know where we need to go and how to get there. But from a KJ's perspective, it might not look like it.

What "failed crowdfunding offer" are you referring to?

We discussed the possibility of raising capital through crowdfunding, but we never implemented it.

Our priorities are (a) making money and (b) ensuring that we have the ability to make money in the future. Producing new music is an important part of (b).

As for being "in trouble," we were profitable in 2015, and we're in better financial condition than we've been since I first became involved with the operation in 2009. We're on track to put more money this year into lawsuits and investigations than we have ever spent, while at the same time launching a major new entertainment services company, even as we sign and fund new licenses with major publishers.



Do you mean that "doublespeak" won't change your opinion, or that nothing I say will change your opinion?



I continue to be surprised by the fact that people don't understand that we're a commercial enterprise. We are a commercial enterprise. We are interested in generating income for ourselves, just like you are interested in generating income for yourself. If we can put karaoke juke boxes and equipment in a venue and make money that way, we'll consider it. (For the record, we're not considering that at the moment.) But we definitely think there is a great deal of money to be made by offering a premium pub entertainment service to clients around the U.S. We're already offering karaoke; we're planning to add trivia within a couple of months; we'll also offer DJ/Dance; and we're developing a music-related pub game as well.



The terms of the GEM series license permit 1:1 media-shifting of Sound Choice CD+G discs that you own, in addition to the GEM tracks. Our GEM series licensees are required to submit to inspection of their systems on our request, and they are not permitted to step outside 1:1, on pain of losing their GEM license without compensation. We regularly enforce these terms, but you're right, we don't require an audit of CD+G discs before being licensed.

(By the way, we expect to start investigations in Colorado within the next couple of months.)



Sure, they could. And if you think they are, tell us and we'll check it out, and if they are, there will be consequences for them.

Let's forget about PRIME for a moment. Suppose things are just like they are right now. If we have an opportunity in your service area, on a night you're free, at or higher than your usual rate, would you be interested in servicing that opportunity? I'm not looking for a commitment, just wanting to know generally. If we have that opportunity, and you are available, and we can agree on a rate, we'd be delighted to hire you for the gig. And that's not going to change, whether you sign up for PRIME or not.

PRIME is the very reason for this thread.

I do not like to see you, as a manu, entering into a competitive situation in local markets with anyone
that is a customer of your base business. I personally view that as unfair advantage. Others may not.
I have differing principles than those that do not.

How do you like my double speak?

No you could not hire me.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Is this your official announcement of the "next phase" of your training? Amazing.... I'm sure the checks would bounce and.... well, "ewwww!"

Apparently you're so obsessed with me that you haven't bothered to notice that the very market you're attempting to court (pun intended) is, for lack of a better term, "turning on you." Keep dumping the poison in the well.... You're not done yet....

You "hired an experienced KJ?"... So? What that KJ does in HIS part of the country, probably doesn't work here... Chicago is 325 miles from Detroit and the way karaoke works, they might as well be as far as the moon, but your 1 KJ knows "everything?" Chris Avis might be a superstar in Washington... but not in Detroit, or Philly, or Dallas, or even Phoenix. Who is this masked superstar? Hal Kinney?....


Here's the marketing ignorance:
Almost all other competitors have been swept out of the country and the main distribution has been shut down.... You'd think that they'd ramp right up to produce new music and raise the prices if they like --- there's no one else to get it from currently. But instead, they've decided that the best avenue is to compete with the same market that they actively seek to drag into court and sue... and of course add some "Sales Incentives" with their collection of oldies.

That is some "hot sh*t marketing there boy!" Unfortunately, past history dictates that unless it's a lawsuit against someone, nothing's really going to happen but you can get on your knees and get nothing but lip-service.... (pun intended again.)

I'm not buying the "publisher roadblock" bull.... KSFGroup doesn't seem to have the same roadblocks... with the same publishers.... in the same country..... and they are from Finland.

"BJs and Blank Checks"... that's their marketing advantage....

You're already here. Have been for quite awhile. Way long enough, to have started suits. Your spotters were spotted by me long, long ago. They give themselves up to those with discernment (that is why so many leased the GEMs). So what has been the hold up?

Would you like some names of the spotters? Some real names some not. From Chicago? From the Northwest and a forum member/contributor? From NC?

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Didn't see an answer, but what kind of equipment did you guys set it up with
make/model mixer, speakers, amps, effects, mics, etc....

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Mr. Harrington : If PEP ever makes it to alberta, drop me a PM the majority of places that have karaoke where i sing don't have a legal host, so i have no qualms about taking jobs away from them.

I don't even really care about the whole competition angle, i'm already competing against some VERY competent people as it is, and failing miserably so far.. I'm not giving up yet but it has proven to be vastly harder than even i had anticipated.

I can understand needing to have a steady stream of income in order to justify the costs of producing music, i just thought that after six years you would have been a HELL of a lot futher along. It's really frustrating to have to wait/watch.

At this point, based on past experience, i would even go as far to say that i would be willing to bet you $100 that PEP won't have gotten any father on releasing music by the end of 2016. Since i despise gambling, that should give you an indication of how strongly i feel about the whole situation.

respectfully

-James

That is a slightly unfair comparision. KSF has a profitable business running overseas, and established relationships with all the publishers.

PEP is basically starting from square 1.

Having said that, I still believe that they should have made better progress than they currently have.

of course, that is just my opinion. I don't have all the facts.

-James

Don't know why I was mentioned, but.....

I am not who they hired...
I can be successful in any city (and I plan to be)...
I am all for blank checks too.....
The other item is subject matter that I don't feel is appropriate on an all ages section of the forum....

There isn't any magic to karaoke in one city vs another. That's not to say that a host would not have to pay attention and adapt. There are subtle differences that any GOOD karaoke host should be able to adapt to. If one doesn't believe this, then how is it that we all have scrubs with pirate karaoke hard drives in our respective cities? If they can make it, an experienced karaoke host should be able to move and make it where they land as well.

_________________
-Chris

A blank check is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. It can only be worth something if the account can support the number written on it.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

There are at least three producers of whom we are aware who have existing production operations who are selling, we assume legally, in the U.S. right now.

I know that you know this.

So, when you said "there's no one else to get it from currently," that wasn't a truthful statement.



It's not just a publisher roadbloack. It's the fact that even with Tricerasoft out of the picture, there is not enough paid demand to create a risk profile for the required investment that we are comfortable with.

Other companies that are better capitalized or that have uninterrupted operations can manage that risk differently.

Could we sink $30,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 into new production? Sure. We've got it. But what happens if not enough people buy the product to earn us that money back? Then what?

We are looking at the market as a whole, and we see an opportunity. We're going to take it, and it's going to give us the flexibility needed to justify making new music.