Karaoke Forums

I couldn't tell you why the administrators choose to do what they do.

But I have neither the time nor the inclination to try to figure out where you are. If you want me to respond, you can PM your location and I'll look into it.

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:57 amNo, you're not interested in this at all and you know it. You are doing whatever you can to "turn pirates into customers" (your words, not mine)
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:08 pm "Ideally?"
And this is a hoot!:It's not "a penalty" because it's called a "HELP licensing fee." And it's available on a convenient monthly payment plan. You now "license piracy" against those who have paid their dues and paid for the product. You're not interested in stopping piracy at all, you want to make money on it and you don't care what the effects are.

So were you lying then or are you lying now?

Here's another example of where you take one bit of something out of context and drag it unto the nth degree.

PEP: "We are interested in putting pirates out of business."
Cheddar Bob: "You're not interested in this at all. See, this one time you said 'Ideally, some pirates will be turned into customers.'"

We're interested in turning some pirates into customers and putting the rest out of business. Does that not qualify as "at all"?

Plus, let's look at the full quote:



That's pretty dishonest editing on your part.



I almost didn't respond to this because of how breathtakingly stupid it is, but there's a point to be made:

Post date of the comment: 8/10/2011
Launch date of HELP: 2/25/2015

(That's 3 years, 6 months, and 15 days later, in case you're not good at math.)

Circumstances change. We made the choice to give people the option to come into our system voluntarily and pay for their use of the product. Would you rather have your competitor pay $129 a month, or $0? Because those are the options.

Of course you would have to get the word out to the other members on here. You could EASILY make $1000 per song if you marketed them properly. And it wouldn't take any time at all. You might be pleasantly surprised if you would just take the chance. I told you, I, for one, would be all over it, and you have people like Chris and Frank who have, like ten rigs each.

See, I have learned that if you WANT to do something you CAN!! If you people WANT to make new music you can and would, but you are refusing to, out of fear!! Shameful!!

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The PRIME application system is now available.

It's not "dishonest editing" at all. How many have left the business, and how many have had raises that can be directly linked to your efforts?

The point is that you've always wanted to "turn pirates into customers" and that's exactly what your "help license" is designed to do facilitate that changeover easily and finance it and it doesn't matter when it is or who it affects.


It doesn't matter whether my competitor pays $0 or $129 month - either way I'm not getting a dime of that - you are - so guess who it is that you'll be catering to? The "former pirates" and that's all. And, it doesn't matter if it's 3 years, or 3 minutes. Your "changing of the rules" faster than your underwear makes for an untrustworthy environment for customers - and potential customers - but I'm sure there wasn't much "marketing 101" in law school, genius.

Your customers are telling what they want and you're doing nothing but attempting to justify why you won't give it to them.... I won't even talk about why that is.

BTW, you want to start again with the name calling? Haven't you grown up yet?

EXACTLY!!! We don't want your excuses, we don't want more BS programs. We want music!!!

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

This comment/question is directed at Jim Harrington.

Let's say you (PEP) does everything that you have said is going to happen,, and it actually works. (Personally, I think you are blowing smoke, but that is to be seen). OK, here is how I see it. You actually do get qualified/trained hosts to work in certain areas/markets using your GEM series and/or PRIME offers. Then you compete against people who are truly in the business of hosting shows but do not qualify or choose to NOT participate in the PRIME programs. These hosts could be customers of yours or not, it doesn't matter either way, but they DO host LEGAL shows in a professional manner. They most likely also own their own equipment and music.

This is going to be a common scenario. And in my opinion they will suffer from you hosting and possibly competing directly against them. You do not produce "new" music, so these other hosts will not be buying from you, since they most likely already have the music in their libraries. How on earth can you justify or rationalize the statement that they can benefit from your programs?

My day job is in the steel building business and we compete directly against Nucor, the nations largest steel producer. They set the prices on the steel market, since they are the ones who produce the steel. Several years ago, they entered into actually manufacturing pre-engineered metal buildings, same as my company. It created an unfair market place for others to compete against them. Our company had to resort to buying material from other manufactures other than Nucor, which also meant buying foreign steel, just to be able to compete. Other building manufacturers weren't as lucky or didn't have enough foresight to be as fluid as our company. It's the "Walmart" philosophy. Put your competition out of business by using unfair practices, then raise the prices to the maximum allowed,,, hurting the economy. It happens frequently with new Walmarts, and it will happen with you, (assuming you actually succeed)

I do not begrudge anyone for wanting to make money, it's the American dream. But in my view and opinion, you and your employer are acting and running business unethically and really should be seriously ashamed of yourselves. What some of these people on this forum have expressed before now may be overzealous, but they are right, you double speak and bend laws and truths in the favor of your employer,,, just like a seasoned lawyer has been taught to do. I do not know if you realize that most people view lawyers as a bunch of untrustworthy, scheming, greedy, immoral leeches ,,,(among other less than positive opinions) I hope you are not one of those type of professionals. The company and people you work for used to be great,,, maybe you can be great again. But at this point in time, the general karaoke hosting community cannot trust or believe what you say. Prove us wrong.

Well I can tell you one thing, for it to work for them, they would definitely need more newer music than they have in the old SC and CB libraries. At least for a show like mine, sure lots of SC and CB still are relevant, they are not nearly what they were even just a couple years ago. I'm sure a show could be run successfully with just those two libraries - but it's not going to get younger singers as interested - which is who everyone needs to target, older singers are still important but they often do not come out as often and may not drink as much (spending) as they once did (if at all). It will be like going to your parents karaoke hangout. Newer music is going to be a key. Unless you end up buying your new music from karaoke.net!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You are correct Lonnie.

Although I am out of the business, I still watch and see how the karaoke world is doing. What I see is, "if" PEP actually does get the PRIME up and running, they will have outdated libraries and maybe a pair of powered Behringer speakers and mixing board to use as "tools". A true professional host is a person who has a vested interest in the success of the business and how they host. They offer a good selection of up to date songs, using a sound system that makes the singers sound as humanly good as possible. All the while being a personable and friendly, fair host. The success of the show depends on the host himself/herself making the customers and singers feel like they want to attend their show.

If the day ever does come that PRIME gets rolling, these hosts will not have the same attitude as owner/operator/hosts and will be like the hosts that usually come and go like a bad fad.

I will put the number at a lowball estimate of 140 members that need to sign up to make PRIME viable.

That number ($50,000 income) will cover the tracks that PEP needs to produce to honor that part of the membership (50 tracks @ $1000/track).

That includes nothing else. No advertising, no training programs, etc. All these additional items only cause that number to increase.

So a professional KJ who uses the system, and doesn't take advantage of whatever else they offer (which is not PEPs fault in all honestly) will pay $7.00 a track... double the cost of a KV track. If those products are NOT available to the KJ when they sign up, then the KJ simply overpaid for the karaoke tracks hes bought, or forced to buy if PEP doesn't make any more tracks.

Without having ANY offerings at the moment, it's a $349 no interest loan to PEP with a promise that they will make good on it at some point in the near future. Of course, remembering how well ADVANCED went over at $30... it could be a long time before PEP sees that 140 number: $349 is a LOT more then $30.

And before I get the generic "You don't have to buy it" response... no I/we don't, but those who show interest, might want to have some more information before they put down that money. I might pay more for a track later, but that's on me

Getting back to PEP PRIME sans lack of production,

Here is what is happening ;

http://www.cio-today.com/article/index. ... 200007Y0TC

Neighborhood bars are dying and being replaced by larger, cavernous, places. Over 600 bars closing each month compared to 334 opening each month. That is definitely happening here and has been evident for a few years. There are over 1 million people here. In communities where there are less than 100,000 they are probably immune to that.

The larger establishments are corporations and corporations are less likely to leave entertainment options open to a manager or assistant manager, delegating that to a Headquartered entertainment upitty-up and that is where PEP PRIME and PRIME PLATINUM come in. PEP sees an opportunity and I will not begrudge them about this anymore. I guess it is inevitable. I am an Old Dog and I do not like it, but it is what it is. I am against sharing any monies and do not intend to. I also realize that I am 65 and my circumstance is different than others. I think I would like to do this at least 5 more years and after that I guess I will just rent Community Centers in the Mountains around here, have covered dishes with the small community folk and work on a donation basis. Yep !

Do not judge me as an old 65 because I am not, though my principles usually reflect my age. Unless she be willing. I plan on living to be 108 killed by a jealous 32 year old husband.

I now see that PEP will more than likely have some success with this venture especially down the road as newer and younger KJs enter the market and us Old Dogs leave the business or get used to it.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

My area is small. We have had most of the same bars for 30 or 40 years. My town was only incorporates in 1959. Everyone knows everyone. We don't have corporate bar syndrome here. It's still all small bars, two of which are only beer/wine.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Small bars/big bars... its all the same thing. Sure the corporation restaurant chains might want to take it out of the managers hands, but for the most part, anything that big still knows what the bottom line is. PEP will have a formula for what the gig is worth, the location will know what it needs to recoup that fee, if it's a match, it might be a go. Thankfully math is public domain, and if your aware of it, you can make those offers too.

Case in point: I'm a single rig operator and did an Applebees gig for a few years back. The manager told me that our target zone for a succesful night was around 17% of the sales being alcohol. It wasn't a set dollar amount and food "didn't count", just alcohol. He would look at that report several times a night to make sure we were on target.

One night, my birthday fell on their gig night. We pulled out all the stops and made it a major promotion, with beer girls, giveaways from the locations, vendors etc. We pulled in between 35-40% alcohol sales that night. The manager told me next time I was there that the company office actually called up the restaurant to see if that number was right. The manager was quick to explain exactly why and how we got to the number we did, and said it was a one shot deal.

They eventually stopped the gig not because we weren't hitting our target zone, but other locations weren't. We were actually the last Applebees in our area with karaoke. When they heard the news, the entire staff was willing to chip in, because the overflow from the bar made Tuesday nights worth working. I was even willing to take a fee cut as well but the big bosses said, nope, sorry, we can't go against the policy, even though it wasn't costing them a dime.

I actually consider myself lucky the manager cued me in about the behind the scenes part of the chain. It was a lesson that proved valuable to me in future gig searches.

Point is that well run places have formulas and policy shifts, it might not even be PEPs or your fault you are out the door. Applebees hired locally but could have just as easily worked with a business like PEP. PEP will have a formula too, and all it comes down to math. Understand the math behind PEP and the chain, and you can make the deals too, PEP will just have more resources dedicated to it.

One thing that PEP doesn't have is local experience of the area (This is not PEPs fault). I can tell Smooth knows his area from experience, and that definitely helps him over the big guys, as most likely someone at PEP will do cold calling or a mass mailing from a business list as an initial reach out. While the numbers work better with large or chain locations, they isn't to say they can't get the small bar down the road. It all comes down to the math.

There is a huge issue with the comment in bold. They do not have SC and CB libraries. They have two trademarks, a few songs they produced after they sold the SC music to Stingray and an old agreement with Stingray to sell the sold catalog on discs. The CB music is owned by DTE, as I understand it. I'd like to know where they plan to gain access to legal music in this direct competition scheme?

For our "owned" systems, we will use the GEM series, along with the hundreds of discs from other producers that we've acquired through the years. Beyond that, we'll get music in the same way that any other KJ gets it—by buying it from the producer.

What some of you don't seem to be getting is that if Sound Choice Entertainment is able to build an operation with hundreds of installed systems, we (meaning Phoenix) will know that we can sell hundreds of copies of any song we put out, thereby removing the loss risk from the new production equation. That means new Sound Choice music for everybody, and we do it by displacing pirates.

You (some of you) didn't like the way we started ADVANCE. OK, fine.

You criticized our suggestion that we might go the route of crowdfunding. Fine also. (We didn't go that route.)

Instead, we decided to invest in an operation that will (a) materially improve the way that KJs are hired and compensated, even if you have nothing to do with our operation, and (b) make it possible for us to make new music profitably. As an adjunct to that, we created a program to help KJs who want it to save money on music and equipment, get access to training and a knowledgebase, and a bunch of other benefits.

And you (some of you) don't like that, either. And that's fine, too.

So basically, a large collection of "oldies?"
Gee, I wonder if you will create unauthorized copies of intellectual property and trademarks on laptops for these "operators" to use? You're not planning on shipping them the discs or are you just offering them an SC trademark help license only? You wouldn't want to become the same "technical infringer" that you sue for would you?

Might be time to make a few inquiries..
First of all, the operative word here is "IF" and that's not going to be as easy or cheap and you might think.

Second, It would be just stupid --- plain stupid -- to sell new songs you create to other KJ's... who would be in competition with you. You didn't like the songs hitting the internet before, what makes you think it will stop? Even the gem series is on the torrent sites. Ask any KJ if they had the "only disc in town" with the newest songs on it if they'd be happy to share that (even sell that) to their competitors. So no, I don't believe that you'll sell anything to anyone else, "IF" and only "if" this lead balloon gets off the ground at all.

Is that still running?... I know it consisted of a bunch of refunds.... so you think KJ's are still going to send in money with you spouting that you're going to compete with them? Really?

Based on your overwhelming marketing success for this program, maybe you should have. But then again, getting the general public to sign a contract would be rather difficult.

It will not;
(a) materially improve the way that KJs are hired and compensated because venues don't pay what you believe they will. Two weeks of flop attendance in the summer and your host will be out the door. (Nothing personal, just corporate policy) And if you think you can squeeze the KJ on that end, you'll be left without one and nor will it,
(b) make it possible for you to make new music profitably because you don't want to spend your money (that you claim you have) NOW to "make music" at all. What do you think will suddenly "make it profitable?" .... There's nothing there...

I doubt this will get any farther along than the advance tin-cup program.

I thought the deal with Stingray was strictly an option to sell on discs. I doubt very seriously that agreement extends to you actually USING the product yourself. Who knows if they still think there is an agreement past your one printing. Maybe you've already checked on this. Maybe Stingray wouldn't care regardless. Technically, I suppose you could sell GEMs to a secondary company (probably for a dollar) if you have the stock. Any way you look at it this is unfair competition and KJs should be pissed at you. You can say you plan to leave your groupie KJs alone but a gig is a gig, right? Now you are going in with pretty much free music? Sounds really familiar to me. Competing against free music is the same deal whether it's pirated or not.

OK, I just let a little more of this soak in. So WE, and yes I contributed greatly with SC disc purchases, helped finance the initial SC catalog. SC further made profit with a catalog sale to Stingray. You aquired an agreement to sell only on disc. Went overseas and produced the GEM, further making money off a part of the catalog. You sued people and acquired their legal discs through settlements. Now you plan to compete with the very people that helped fund you through the years using free product and product you acquired through settlements.

And you don't see why people should be pissed beyond belief at you?

A large collection of what gets sung by actual patrons, Cheddar.

What part of "we'll get music in the same way that any other KJ gets it—by buying it from the producer" was unclear to you?



I'm not even sure what this means. We will own the systems I was referring to, and all of the music will be licensed to us for the uses we are making.



Go right ahead.



You think everything we do is stupid, so *yawn*.

But we're not going to be "selling" tracks to anyone. They will be licensed, in the same manner as the GEM series. Each track will be overtly and covertly marked. We'll know with specificity every person who is supposed to have any given track. If it shows up somewhere it's not supposed to be, that's a slam-dunk case, and we'll be able to trace it to the source pirate and sue them as well.

There is plenty of business for every last one of our legitimate licensees, so there's no reason to keep this product out of our hands.



When they realize that doing so not only voids their license in that song but also voids all licenses they hold in any SC product, and that we have the ability to trace it back to them, and that they will be subject to suit (and possibly to criminal copyright infringement charges) for doing so, I'm going to call that a sufficient deterrent.

You know, I used to think you were angry with us because we (indirectly) forced you to shut down your multi-rigging operation. But I'm starting to think it's just envy.