Karaoke Forums

I am telling you, the whole thing is BS. They are pieces of music. It's time to open up all markets to everyone!! The manufacturers are a bunch of gutless chickens!! I sent Joe, from a Zoom and email, and he told me that if he tried to fight it he would lose his licensing. What kind of crap is that?? They need to fight this and get it fixed!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I miss getting SBI via downloads, but if you combine enough alternative sources it's not so bad.

I'm buying Zoom CD packs and mp3+g DVDs.

There's Sunfly there's Mr. Entertainer.

There's KJ Media Pro (quality is sometimes not there, but so convenient!)

There's Karaoke.net and there's All Star Karaoke.

Is it perfect? Alas no. But still compared to how life used to be pre downloads? Great!

Cheating isn't worth it.

you can still buy SBI directly from SBI, at least i have no problems or blocks.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I get the Territory notice when I go to SBI.com

I'm in the US. When I get to the SBI home page, I click on the notice, it goes away and I can make purchases.

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DJ Don

When I purchase at SBI I've found a few songs that it will not let me purchase. So while I can get some, others are definitely blocked.

You obviously haven't come across some of the songs that are not available for download but custom disc only - which is no longer available to US/Canada.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

i have, but i can still buy many songs form them that are not available anywhere else and don't even show up on icroons.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

As far as downloads go - icroons ONLY list karaoke.net & karaoke-version tracks. So you won't find any search results for SBI even though they may exist!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just something to consider...

If you're bypassing a sites security measures, that were put in place because that site/manu were sent a cease and desist (or face tougher consequences), you are ultimately putting them at further legal risk. If they get audited or the like, and find that they are still selling downloads to US based individuals (This wouldn't be hard, technically) they will likely face bigger fines and legal ramifications.

If you like those sites and manus, and want them to have a chance at offering downloads to the US once again, you may want to re-consider circumventing their geo-block security measures.

It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to block these downloads 100%. Don't put it on the KJ's that are handing them money for it. It is obvious that their "geo-block security measures" aren't effective and they continue to sell product to illegal areas.

Once again, the KJ is being blamed for what the manufacturer(s) are failing to do to remain on the right side of the law.

I disagree.

As long as the friend in the UK that bought them is not retaining a copy, I don't see anything that is a violation or damaging in any way.

There is no difference in the above 2 scenarios whether the friend places a drive in a box and mails it, or sends it electronically, as long as they are not retaining a secondary copy, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I could fly to the UK now and buy every disc I could get my hands on, every download possible, fly back here and sell them as "extras I don't need" all day... as long as I'm not keeping secondary copies, it's perfectly legal....

It's the "first sale doctrine" and I believe even PEP used this same logic with the Gem series discs that were pressed in the Czech Republic and Kurt sold all the discs... to himself.... to lease here.

I do agree with Chip.

The person in the UK would be selling a part of his library provided they not keep it for themselves.

The manus located there are only forbidden from selling directly to the US and Canada. In that scenario they are still in compliance. WE ALL UNDERSTAND ABOUT COMPLIANCE now, don't we? The edict is enforced only on the manu.

I have a cousin that lives in London and as a highly regarded Chef caters to several well known actors and musicians. He owns nothing Karaoke and has no interest in that regard other than possibly for me.
We have discussed this very issue.

If PEP would get their backside in gear these discussions for the most part would go away. It does not seem to be a priority with them to produce and I am beginning to believe they see no need to do that ever again. They have themselves spread so thin with the current business model.

PEP seems to have totally bought into 'Customer Perception'. I am issuing a challenge to them to prove me wrong. Chip has done it many times.

Though, Mr Harrington denies it, I believe they have had a sharing of thought about downloads with Sony/EMI. Timing of litigation between those parties and the implementation of this current ban with the UK manus is telling enough. The implementation was not in effect before their litigation was finalized.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

"It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to block these downloads 100%. Don't put it on the KJ's that are handing them money for it. It is obvious that their "geo-block security measures" aren't effective and they continue to sell product to illegal areas."

So if you didn't lock your car and it got stolen or left your house unlocked and something got stolen (or you did lock them and someone broke in) and sold those items then the person who bought them shouldn't be charged for receiving stolen property? Afterall you are 100% responsible to secure your own items. I guess the next time you get robbed, you shouldn't bother calling the police since it was your fault in the first place.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

So Smooth are you willing to pay Joe's legal bills for him to be able to do what you want him to?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

There is a legally important difference between "sending" electronic goods and mailing physical goods: The former involves making a copy, while the latter does not. "Making a copy" is an act that requires a license.



IF, and ONLY IF, you are selling the physical discs or other media that you purchased, or if you burned a download to a physical medium, you are selling the physical medium, then that's correct.

It is not legal for you to buy media or downloads in the UK, bring them here, and distribute electronic copies of what you bought (even if you destroy the originals in the process).



Although the First Sale Doctrine permits the unrestricted sale of physical goods previously purchased, it does not extend to electronic goods and distribution through copying (which is what electronic distribution is).

Your description of our arrangements with the GEM series discs (and other discs) does not accurately describe the transaction. The discs were made, under MCPS license, by a third-party company that was not owned or controlled by anyone at Slep-Tone. The discs were then sold by that company to Slep-Tone.

I used SBI this morning, using my American address, and was able to purchase three of the five tracks in the shopping cart. Disturbed's "Sound Of Silence" had to be taken out before I could complete the sale.

What I found funny was that while "Everlong" was able to be purchased, I couldn't get "The Pretender", both by the Foo Fighters.

It's not 100% of the catalog, but its a worth a try at a gig if you are trying to find a track.

Hopefully, Zoom will follow suit with something similar.

Except nothing "got stolen" at all nobody "got robbed" either , you sold it to them when you accepted their money (the exchange).

And yes, YOU are 100% responsible to secure your own items. But in your example, nothing gets "stolen" from a manufacturer does it? Nope. It's "sold" and the manufacturer accepts payment in exchange. The manufacturer fails to verify the location of the customer and "the manufacturer is illegally distributing the goods."

Nice try.

Bullsh*t. Of course for your lawsuit business model, it is in your vested interest to insure that everything "requires a license." Because that's all you have and can do: sell licenses.

But to humor your ridiculously stupid premise, please show me where the "damages" occur. How is storing my downloaded copy on my personal FTP server any different than storing my downloaded copy it on a physical drive?

And you really have to come with something better than "because I said so" and "because I went to law school" because that's crap too.


Once again, detail where the "damages" occur, because now you want to invalidate the first sale doctrine? Isn't that exactly what you did with the gem oldies?
#1 You "bought media in the UK" in the form of discs (licensed right?) from FSC Mediaplas
#2. You "brought them here"
#3. You "distribute them here" while...
#4. The lessee holds "the originals" under a possessory license.

The only difference being that you were forced to use discs and not hard drives.


Smoke and mirrors....
I can do the exact same thing today:
#1. I can buy the discs or downloads, that were
#2. made "under MCPS license" by a third-party company (Sunfly or Zoom, or SBI)
#3. that is not "controlled by anyone" in the U.S.
#4. bring them here and resell them all day on a 1:1 basis as exactly what I bought.

There is no difference.... none, zip, zilch. And with enough money, I can purchase them "under my brand name/logo" and lease them.... and then sue KJ's for copying them too....

It's not magic at all.

Mr Harrington Is it legal to buy a Sunfly or Zoom CDG from the U.S. on ebay and use it. Thanks