Karaoke Forums

As long as the disc was legitimately originally purchased under the terms of a valid license, then yes, you can legally buy that disc and use it in the US.

A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc., 239 F.3d 1004, 1014 (9th Cir. 2001) (unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials via the internet violates both the exclusive right of reproduction and the exclusive right of distribution).

Capitol Records, LLC v. ReDigi Inc., 934 F.Supp.2d 640 (S.D.N.Y. 2013 (service that facilitates the transfer of downloaded copyrighted materials from one person via the internet violates the right of reproduction and the right of distribution, and neither the First Sale Doctrine nor Fair Use applies).

The question wasn't "where are the damages," but "is this an infringement," and every court that's considered the question has concluded that it is.



My position as outlined doesn't "invalidate the first sale doctrine." The First Sale Doctrine only applies to the physical thing that was originally sold. If you are "transferring" by making a copy, you aren't transferring the physical thing that was originally sold.

The rest of your post only illustrates that you're confused, likely as a result of being so angry at us that you can't see straight, so no response is needed.

This is all so idiotic.

There is no intent to do harm to the manufacturers, and there is ony intent on helping said manufacturers, and we run laws preventing a potential client from supporting said business buying their products. The only crime being we are from different countries. What are the factors preventing this besides the law? Why is there this law? I can buy products from China, the UK, and other countries... 99% of the time without embaroes and taxes.

Further, I can "legally" get the downloads if it is purchased on European soil and "sent" to my physically. My only crime here is I don't have a friend or relative in Europe. But the lucky American customers with relatives in Europe can get these downloads?

Who are we electing as nations that are making these moronic and antiquated laws?

because in the U.S. the publishers have the power to charge whatever they damn well please unlike the rest of the world.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I wonder if R. I. C. O. applies?

The issue isn't the producers (which I view as a more correct term than "manufacturer"), who would be more than happy to sell you the downloads directly. The issue is that the owners of copyright in the underlying musical compositions, the music publishers, operate under different sets of rules/laws in the U.S. versus the U.K.--a situation they exploit to charge higher prices to U.S.-based producers.

Virtually all music publishers and songwriters who have interests in the U.K. want to be a part of MCPS because the streamlined process of rate-setting yields a huge cost savings. They don't have to be a part of MCPS--that is, they can opt out--but that means taking on a large administrative burden.

By contrast, in the U.S., no comparable organization exists. There are analogues, of course--ASCAP and BMI for the collection of performance royalties, and the Harry Fox Agency for collecting mechanical license fees. But music publishers make the bulk of their "negotiated" money on licensing for synchronization--TV and film, primarily--so it's more lucrative, in the U.S. market, to negotiate those agreements themselves. Karaoke licensing requires a synch license, so it gets lumped in with TV and film even though it's a very different sort of product.

Allowing U.K.-based entities to sell karaoke downloads to U.S. customers would effectively allow arbitrage on the difference between U.K. licensing costs and U.S. licensing costs. That works to the music publishers' detriment; they get quite a bit less money, effectively, than they would with a U.S. license. With physical media, they can't stop it because of the First Sale Doctrine. (If they could, they definitely would.) But they can stop downloads because that requires making a copy.

I really don't view this as a political problem. That is, it's really not a situation that requires a political remedy, and I would expect any political reform to the copyright laws in this area to be highly detrimental to consumers, at least under the current political climate. It is, however, a problem that can be remedied cooperatively, by establishing an organization that acts as a clearinghouse for synch rights, just like MCPS does. I just don't particularly see much of a motivation on the part of the publishers to establish such an organization.

Things would be a hell of a lot easier if there was a 'karaoke work' that involved all the proper rights*sync etc* and worked like music does.

The karaoke producer pays for the rights to produce the karaoke work, and then that work is considered to be a new work, and therefore ALL the rights to that work now belong to the karaoke producer that made it.


Of course, that would make way too much sense, so it will probably never happen

-James

Not really. In simple terms, cutting out over seas sales while not allowing a viable sale for the same product in the US means they currently get zero for the non-sale versus the Euro rate for an allowed import sale. Wouldn't it be smarter to establish a US Sales funnel for the same products prior to cutting the European cord?

The publishers do allow an "import sale." There is nothing, other than profitability, stopping UK producers from negotiating licenses for downloadable media in the U.S. Alternatively, a U.S. producer can get licensing in the U.S. and sell downloads for what the publishers consider to be "the same product" (although it may be a different recording, it's the same composition).

that really is the point. they make it so restrictive to do that, it comes down to "why bother"?
they seem to prefer to make nothing over make something, that just seems ridiculous to me.
MANU: "i can sell these in America and you get 12 cents per copy"
PUB: "no, in America i want 90 cents per copy, the rest of the word i am fine getting 12 cents"
MANU: "then forget it, that is most of my profit"
PUB: "even better, because f#$k America"

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I think if the producers wanted to, they could make the prices a little higher to include the US market. So I might have to pay $3.00 instead of $2.50, it'seems still worth it for new music.

For now, I will get what I can however I can legally get it. Hopefully the market straightens out before it becomes deadly to producers

That's one reason why we are considering having our new production done in the UK. Leaving aside the advance royalty requirements, which are significant, the administrative burden of royalty management for US licensing is enormous.

It's more like; "no response would be credible or believable" Kind of like your continued promises of product... While Karaoke.Net -- in FINLAND -- is kicking your butt all over the place. You have no intention of producing anything so you might as well stop the promises we've heard for 6 years.

But even on the surface, that response is coming from who?
The "officer and lead attorney" for who? (no vested interest there right?... of course not... )

I'm not confused at all, I know exactly what you're doing and that has always forced you to revert to the same name calling crap-o-la that you demonstrate above...

Good show counsel... at least you're consistent.

(a) I notice that in response to my case citations above, which you pretended I wouldn't be able to produce...you got nothin'.
(b) I haven't called you any names. Stop deflecting.

Wanted to purchase 2 karaoke cdgs from a major karaoke store in the proverbial land down under, 1.selected cdgs, 2. Pay now, 3.denied! Why? I did not order downloads on my puter,nor did I order custom discs! I ordered manufactured name brand karaoke cdgs! Now I can understand said company refusal to sell 1. contested 2. No fly 3. Insert whatever! I can walk in any store and purchase food products, clothing, automobiles, etc.from every corner of our world, but I cannot purchase something so simple as a song, isn't music a place in our mind where we attain peace, joy and satisfaction, with all the legal issues within the music industry l pray that cooler heads will prevail. If not was it all for a song?

Ha. Look for PEP to sell rebranded tracks from the same people who produce SBI, Mr. Entertainer, Abraxas etc tracks. At, you know, twice the price

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DJ Don

I'm reading: Sound choice (America's Favorite Karaoke Brand) will look into producing in the UK so they can skirt US royalty payments somehow. Sounds a little shady to me.

Sounds about right. It worked for SC before when they created the GEM series using a separate UK company and then sold the discs to someone else who imported them to the USA. I mean it can't be easy to be paying off a settlement with Sony, losing your distribution agreement with the people you sold your catalog to and having to come up with publisher advances for new production. I mean the lawsuit business is good - but it's probably not that good!

But this should be great news for the SC license holders who will be able to buy new SC discs! You won't be able to buy the songs as downloads for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread and if you rip the discs, you are infringing on publisher copyrights ( I know I know - Jim said that yes it is an infringement but nobody has ever been sued by a publisher) but the band is getting back together mates!

Does this mean if you do you'll have to go back to discs? I thought the whole point of your new music was to have digital downloads. If you go back to the UK, won't everyone be in the same position as now? *ie having to use a TOR or other means to access your music*