Karaoke Forums

I think those 2 statements are somewhat mutually exclusive.

Bar owners are cheap to begin with. They're cheap with entertainment, employees, vendors etc. Everything except their wives. Especially if they're Greek.

We can thank piracy, in part, FOR under-cutting kjs.

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DJ Don

You have to always look at the bottom line if you are in business. The venue owner is in business to make a profit, one way to generate a profit is to cut expenses as much as possible. The trick lies in knowing where you can cut and by how much? A high class place also generally has a high overhead. Just like a family cuts first entertainment, so a venue looks to cut it's entertainment expenses first. With tight margins you find many venue owners experimenting with different ways to cut costs, especially in entertainment.

As a matter of business ethics, I don't believe in doing free shows. I own a club and would probably benefit from the 'try out a new KJ every week' plan, but I won't do that, either.

I've been playing music for decades, part of that time as my vocation. I do something else for a living now, so it doesn't matter much what I make playing, but playing free gigs isn't fair to the people who are still trying to make a living at it. How would you like to be a plumber if every plumber in town would unclog one toilet for free?

As far as charitable causes, I charge money for them, because those are good gigs for guys trying to make a living. If I'm asked to donate my time for a worthwhile cause, I'll consider it if every single person at the event is working for free. If they're paying for the hall, or paying for catering, or servers, or anything else, they should pay for the entertainment.

I've drawn that line for many years, and it's stood me in good stead. An excellent rule for business--never give away something you're trying to sell.

sorry, duplicate post

When I started hosting I had some friends who were musicians the one piece of advice they all had was "don't quit your day job". Unfortunately people who can make a living off of entertainment are like professional athletes few and far between. I never quit my day job while I was doing karaoke shows at night. When I retired then my night job became my real job, but by that time I was in good financial shape. I'm from a different generation with a different mind set. It was drilled into us that we have a duty and a responsibility to this country and to our community. I was taught when someone asks for help especially if it was a service organization that I should do my civic duty, and help. I don't worry about what other people are doing or not doing, if no one ever helped anyone what would this world be like? I'm in a good position now, I can do what I want to because I want to, and not because I have to. That gives a person a great deal of power, at least over their life and time. I have an abundance of time now, and I can use my skills such as they are to help out, so I do.

Lone Ranger, I understand where you're coming from (and I'm not from such a different generation than you--I'm near retirement age). We donate cash to local charities, and we very often give gift cards or food from our restaurant to support community events.

But I don't do it with music performance, because in my opinion it takes away work from people who need it. It devalues what we do. Look how often an event is held in an expensive hall, and an expensive caterer is paid a premium price, and the wait and bar staff are paid wages and tips, the local tux rental charges full pop for all the guests, etc.

But the musician or KJ is asked to donate his time.

If you present yourself as a professional, you shouldn't work for free, because that will quickly become what you're worth. Spotlight's post highlighted the exact danger of this sort of thing--as long as a lot of people are willing to do a night or two for free, the venues will simply 'audition' one after another of them. You have a capital investment in your gear, same as an electrician or a plumber, and you're entitled to recover that when you work.

Charitable events are one of the ways real musicians and KJs make money--if they're well designed and planned, events can pay for the food and music and the other expenses at normal rates and still raise money for the cause. I've been to events that charged a lot for tickets, solicited donations, and had live and silent auctions, and they seemed to raise tens of thousands of dollars. If you're feeling generous, charge for the gig then pay for an ad in the organization's newsletter, or make a cash donation after the event. I played at a big charity event one time and asked for an auction card. I spent $350 at the auction from the bandstand, which was more than my pay.

But if you simply don't charge, you're devaluing what you do and what others are trying to do. It's easy for me to imagine an event planner telling a client, "I can save you money on entertainment--there's a guy that will do karaoke for free if it's for charity." There went another gig, drained out of the gig pool.

Just my opinion.

I have never offered a free show. I've never had to but I would consider it in special circumstances and it would only be for 2 hours. But all in all, I wholeheartedly agree. When you choose to give away free shows, especially more than one, you are showing that you are worthless.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I don't know about the "Worthless" part of the statement, but I do agree with the sentiment. Not only that, but offering Freebies has been the way "Under-cutters" have caused so many problems for other KJs out there. They start out offering a freebie or two, then they offer a discounted rate (usually for the first few shows, or until business builds up), and then they never see those promised raises.

Retired professionals are not bound by the same rules as currently working pros. They can if they choose donate their time and talents since they are not seeking a steady situation. If they still have the equipment and the desire to put on a show now and again I don't think there is any harm to any working pro. They are filling in for one time special events period. At least this is my opinion, since my time is my own to do with as I please. I don't think it is in the same league as giving gigs away on a steady basis.

I will never do a freebie to get the gig if they have a kj working there; never will. I may not know who you are but I respect what you do. I’ll move on to another venue that used to have karaoke before (kj's failed to live up to standard). Hence, the 2 hr freebie for them to see what I can do. One time only, from there they can decide if they want to hire me, or not.

A few years back I did a 5hr x’mas/reunion party for Vietnam veterans and their families – on a tight budget. Being a Vietnam vet myself, didn’t mind doing that gig for free.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

One thing to consider is that some KJ's, who are just getting into the business, may not have any idea what the "going rate" is for their area. When I started, I did it as a favor to a friend and the rate ($75/night) was really only to cover the cost of getting some new music. I had a great day job and the karaoke money was just extra.

I wasn't aware of any of the business dynamics of karaoke at all.

But I learned them very quickly

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-Chris

One of the main reasons for joining this forum is to learn, as this is all fairly new to me. I have worked in the union environment for years, and now in management and have operated a small business years ago, so I do have some of the basic( non-Karaoke) knowledge....and I know how to treat a customer, both mine and those of whom I work for.
I do appreciate the input of those who are experienced in this field and if I can take away bits and pieces from a lot of you folks, maybe I can put it all together and come up with something that works for me.

Thanks,
Mark

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Karaoke at my 2 Story home shop for fun: Karafun, PCDJ Karaoki and/or MTU Hoster on an i5 PC, through a Soundcraft Signature 10 Mixer out to a Yorkville Excursion EX2 P/A system, plus 2 X 1000 Watt Mackie Thump 15s., 2 AKG Wireless mics, a cool Heil Blue Fin and A Heil Fin Black w/Red LED, Shure SM87 Beta+ a Lewitt LCT 450 and Shure Super 55. Also about 30+Light effects: Lasers, Jellyfish ,Monsoon Trickster, REVO4,Moving head LEDs, Par Wash lights On a DMX controller. And a nice smoke machine!

Reguardless of how flooded your area is, there is always room for change. Many club owners like to change kj's to introduce new followings to their clubs.

This is why they have so many bands following a local circuit.

Go out there and get your feet wet and if you do... keep aside a small budget for new music. It's that one favourite song that keeps singers coming back.

Interact with your singers... keep the party going.

Cheers!

Just a small suggestion... point the lazers to the ceiling away from people eyes/faces. Many hate that. Just from my experiences.