Karaoke Forums

Hi,

I'm somewhat new here, to posting anyways, but I was curious to how many different ways KJ's seem to run their rotation of singers. I have seen it many ways...some fairly, some VERY unfair.

Some background on me:
I've been a DJ for 13 years, a KJ for 3 years. I absolutely LOVE karaoke and can't get enough of it. I love to sing, period! When I decided to start offering karaoke as part of my DJ company it opened up another world of fun and people that I never got to be around as a regular DJ.

I run a mixed up rotation, giving new singers a chance to sing before a returning singer is due up to sing. If I get a ton of requests from 1 particular person I place their slip down the lineup every few songs if it's somewhat dead that night. I'm sure I've tee'd off some people and made others very happy as well with how I run my rotation, but always looking for a better way to do it  

Thanks!
Barry C.
All Event DJ's & Karaoke

You love to sing, so you became a karaoke host?  I hope you don't sing alot in your show - THAT'S a major turn off for most singers.

As far as my rotation, first round is first come first serve (I will start over once I hit a max 20 singers in first round).  Once I start over, then I will add new singers in by intermixing with the old.  I've tried other methods, but this is the one that works for me & seems the fairest in respect to give everyone a chance to sing.  The ones that are there longer are going to sing more than the ones that just get there, but everyone will sing - at least until I cut off taking new slips from new or old singers.  Depending on the length, that could be anywhere from 11:30 - 12:30 in the evening.  Once I cut off, then the only slips I take are exchanges only from singers that had slips up.
No one sings more than 1 time per round.  Duets are counted as both peoples turn so George can't list himself first with Betty & then Betty puts up a slip listed first with George - both these slips are a duet for George & Betty no matter HOW it's listed, they will get up 1 time for the round.  If there are Group songs, then - depending on the group & how they label it, will go at the end of rotations.  If it's the same people but listed in different order, it's still the same group & they will get up 1 time per round.  I as a host will no longer sing if I get more than 5 singers & even then will only sing every other rotation.  Karaoke singing is not for the host, it's for the customers - the hosts job is to keep the customers happy.
I also use a computerized rotation program of my own design that I use so everyone can see where everyone is & how new singers get inserted.
TAKE NO BRIBES TO MOVE PEOPLE!!!!!!  I've turned down $50 & $100 bills to move people up, they look at me as if i'm crazy, I tell them to look around at all these bodies.  They come here because I don't take these bills like some other hosts.

No matter how you run the rotation, make sure it remains consistent.  If it isn't, that's when it starts looking unfair.  You have to stay with your rules.  Don't keep changing them.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

But I thought karaoke was for the host to sing 50% and the rest of the group gets their 50% to sing. Isn't that what it's all about...a chance for the KJ to be heard and get a record deal so they don't have to host anymore?  :wink:

...funny though how many KJ's I see really think that!!

Anyways. I am fair as well with my rotation, don't get me wrong. I know that there are a bizillion ways to fairly run your rotation. The most important of them all is to give everybody a chance to sing and not just the multi slip singer who tries to take over the night.

I saw an interesting way of handling the rotation recently. They would write your name on a white board with the number of songs they have sung. Everytime that person sang they would add a number to their name. He made the rotation public that way.

Another one I recently saw. The KJ make the rotation 8 songs long. When you gave your slip to him he would put it at the bottom of one of the 8 stacks of slips. Anybody use this method? It seemed like alot of the regulars were extremely familiar with this type of rotation and they always knew where they were in it.

_________________
Barry C.
All Event DJ's & Karaoke

The latter method is how I do it, except they're in a row , from left to right, one at the far left is the start of the rotation. All new singers get put to the rear of the rotation.
when it's less than eight-nine singers, I keep myself in the rotation. at ten, I take myself out. I like being in rotation as it's a very easy sign that the rotation is about to start anew. When I take myself out, I'll announce the end of the rotation, and the beginning of the new one.

Knightshow,

I really think I like that kind of a rotation, and would possibly like to switch to that type!

Now the question is, would you be willing to explain in more detail how exactly it should be done? I'll try it on my next event.

_________________
Barry C.
All Event DJ's & Karaoke

This is how I run my rotation.

1 to 5 singers:  I do two in a row.  Singer gives me two slips and they get to sing two songs back to back.  I really like it when they have one song that is CDG and one song that is laser disc because then I can give them the "concert" treatment - starting up the next song boom.  If I have less than 3 singers, I will sing two in a row also - if I have 4 or 5 singers I will sing one song at the top of each rotation as things are light.  I'll pimp HARD for slips.  This usually is the case at one of my shows from 9:00 to 9:45 - then it explodes.

6 to 16 singers:  one song at a time for each singer.  I will sing at the top of the rotation, unless I'm getting flooded with slips I know I'm going over 16.  Once I hit 16 I go back to the top of the rotation.  Murphy's law - those slips start flooding in while I'm singing...

17 or more singers:  blend in the new singers with the old.  Everyone sings one at a time - no extras - I take myself out of the rotation.  Bar manager and other KJ's also get yanked out of the rotation unless there are a ton of requests for them to sing.

I typically stop taking slips around 12:30 AM -- rotation usually too full.  I try to get all singers in who show up by 12:30 AM for one song.

_________________
Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Isn't it funny how that works! Nobody will come up to ask a question until I fire up a song that I sing. They'll start talking to me while I'm in a tune and expect me to have a conversation. Don't get me wrong, I tell them to hang on a second and am nice about it but it's amazing how it doesn't click to wait until the KJ is ready to chat with them. The same people come up to ask about something while I am announcing or talking to the crowd with announcements or getting a contest started.

_________________
Barry C.
All Event DJ's & Karaoke

I run my rotation almost like Lonman does with some tweeks of my own. I sing in rotation at the top of the rotation.
Let's people know when we start new rotation. We start the night out by putting new singer to the back. As soon as we get to the end of the rotation I then start mixing new signers in ( New , Old, New, Old, New, Old). This gives new singers an opertunity to sing fairly quick. Last friday we were slammd with new singers and some did have to wait. But for the most part it works.

As for duets, I have one person who will not sing by her self but loves to sing. So her boyfriend comes up to assist. I turn his mic down so she is lead vocal. I haven't had but one complaint about it and it was from someone who wanted me to bump him up in rotation because he wanted to go home. NOT....

As for the KJ singing. I will sing in rotation, there are songs that are requested of me nightly. I do pull myself at times if we have to many singers. Based on my judgement or if we are running short on time so that the singer can get an extra song in befor the end of the night when we stop at 2 am. We also end one of our shows at 10pm and close to that time I will cut off new slips and call last rotation. At this time I will also alow new singers to sing a song if they want. The show has been known to run 30 min over. And last week I had one on the people who just come to listen tip me $20 saying that I'm on overtime because she requested I do a song.

Some may not like our rotation but I try to keep it fair and constant so people know what to expect. I would have to say that is the most important thing about rotations. No matter how you do it, do it the same all the time so people know what to expect. I will also explain to new singers the rotaton so they have an Idea what to expect.

there is my 1/4 cent worth

Mine is fairly simple, first come first serve.  Howver only 1 song at a time, if I have one turning in multiple requests when I have lots of other people they will get 1 request in the lineup and another one at the back.  This way everyone has a chance to shine.  If it's a slow night fine, but if I have say 20 people wanting to sing I don't want them to see the same 1 or 2 people while the other 18 have to wait forever.

On a busy night I usually only do one song myself, slower nights I do a bit more.  I normally don't try to sing unless there are NO karaoke slips though.  I'm paid to entertain, not to steal the spotlight from what really matters, our patrons.

Two of the Exact Reasons I do What I do,
1.Rotations Scare me
2. I love to Sing

So I got away from Karaoke and started doing my own Character act now I get paid to sing all night by myself:)
No Rotation to worry about.  lol I still cant believe I pulled it off.
They actually pay me to sing...
big ol stage hog...some pics are posted in my personal photo album. (along with my girlfriend in a bikini:) )
the show has a pretty good crowd draw.
lots of different Characters in Costume and adding different ones each show makes it stay fresh.

I still do KJ weddings and home partys but I love doing my show.

BTW   Im still looking for a red wig for my David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust Set.
if anyones got one let me know. its kinda the color of Crystals hair but short razor cut.

just a thought ....when you get tired of rotations and love to sing try it out sometime.
it worked for me.

hi crystal


Michael

Think of each song as getting on a one person ride at Disneyland.  You ride the ride, then get off and go to the back of the line to wait.  If your friend gets off the ride before you and 5 people walk up after he gets back in line but before you do, there will be 5 people between you and your friend.  Some people may only ride once, others may want to ride several times. You get out of line to get a hot dog, you just have to get back in at the end of the line.  That is how my rotation works.

I use a corkboard to manage my rotation.  As the slips come in, I pin them to the board in the order they arrive.  Singers who turn in multiple slips (Multiple riders) have all their slips in a pile tacked to the board.   When they are finished singing, I take the song they just finished singing off the pile, and tack the rest of the pile to the end of the line. As new singers come into the program, they go to the end of the line.

It's not a rotation in the true sense of the term, but it works to make things fair for everyone.  

I used to run a strict rotation where each singer sang in the same spot all night, with new singers added to the end of the rotation, and if they didn't turn in a slip they missed that rotation and got into the next one.  That worked great early on with shorter rotations (10-15 singers), and I used to list the rotation on a whiteboard for all to see.  However, my shows got too popular for that and what was happening was the first singer in the rotation got up to sing and the rotation kept growing and growing and growing...all of the sudden they were going from a 15 minute wait (Maybe 4 singers signed up when they sang their first song) to an hour and a half wait as new singers kept coming in and making the rotation longer.  

To use the Disneyland example, imagine getting there early to hit your favorite ride.  You get one ride in, get off, and then have to step aside while more and more people come into the park and are allowed to cut in line ahead of you because they haven't had a ride yet.  That is how a straight rotation works.

To illustrate the difference, let me lay out a typical scenario.  I'll only use 9 singers in this story in the interest of simplicity.

I show up, turn on the equipment, and I've got my first 4 singers (1-2-3-4) turning in slips.  

1 sings
2 sings
while 3 is singing, 5 & 6 turn in slips.
while 4 is singing, 7-8 & 9 turn in slips.

With a straight rotation, it would look like this:
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9

With my system it would look like this:
1-2-3-4-1-2-5-6-3-7-8-9-4

Singers 1, 2, 3 & 4 were posted when the show started.  After 1 finishes, his next song goes to the end of the line, which is behind 4. Singer 2 finishes and her slip goes to the end of the line which is behind 1.  While 3 is singing, 5 & 6 turn in slips, so they go to the end of the line, behind 2.  3 finishes and his slip goes to the end of the line, which is now behind 6 instead of 2 as the first time around.  While 4 is singing, 7, 8 and 9 turn in slips which go to the end of the line (Behind 3).  When 4 is done she goes to the end of the line which is now behind 9.

The beauty of this for the singers who take the trouble to get there early is that their wait is shorter.  Under a straight rotation, singer one has a 24 minute wait (at 3 min per song) between his first and second trip to the mic.  Under my system, the wait is only 9 minutes.  

I don't think it's fair for patrons who walk into a show later in the evening to get a free pass to the front of the line just because they are new singers.  They don't get to cut in line at Disneyland, and if that's good enough for Disney, then dammit it's good enough for me!

_________________
Spreading the karaoke gospel

not much more to it than that dude

http://www.knightshow.com/tech_help/rotation.jpg

first slip is on the far left... move left to right for rotation.

Love that picture Matt.  You are one heck of an etch-a-sketch artist!

_________________
Spreading the karaoke gospel

LMFAO at Matt's picture!!!

waitaminute..... what's that stickin out..... I suppose it COULD be his nose..... but I choose to think otherwise  :twisted:

_________________

That's a bad way to do it IMO.  One night I was at a bar where I only got to sing one song in the 3 hours that I was there because they gave new singers preference over returning ones.   I'm sorry, but if I put a slip in an hour ago and somebody walked in 10 minutes ago and put in a slip, I damn well should be able to sing before they do.

I eventually stopped going to this bar.  Even though they have a killer sound system and awesome book, I ended up being annoyed pretty much every time I went because of the haphazard ways they ran their rotation (which I could never exactly figure out, it always depended on who was KJing that night).  It got really old seeing certain people singing after me, then later they sang again while I was still waiting to sing my second song.  Especially when I would see it happen 3 or 4 times while I was still waiting.

To the one who does two songs in a row:

I have to admit, I'm not really fond of that format. I love to sing (I'm not a DJ, just a singer), and I don't like spending 45 minutes sitting in between songs. If the place is packed, I'll do it without complaining because I know everyone wants a turn, but if it's empty and I'm sitting for so long because everyone is doing two songs, I'd probably be a bit irritated...

If you're waiting 45 minutes with four singers I'm either taking way to long or someone sang Alice's Restaurant and followed it up with Stairway to Heaven.  

With four singers your wait time between songs is around 30 to 32 minutes - your time on stage is between 6 and 10 minutes.  Seems like a fair wait to me - my customers love it and are only dissapointed when singer number six shows up.

_________________
Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Hey Big Mike!  This is by far the fairest system - and one that I would prefer.

_________________
Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

glad you liked my two minute sketch! !

actually, the 1,2,3,4, method described above is what I do... I call it the "line at the bank" scenario.

When singer 1 finishes the song, they go to the end of the list.

so it would look like 2,3,4,1

anybody else that comes in just goes to the end of the line AS IT APPEARS right then.

I've also seen alot of Karaoke rotations that just steamed me.  The name of the game is business.  I would have singers sitting there waiting for me to start and would remain there all night.  I started my line up at that point and as people came in they fell into what ever place they came in.  It's not fair for the people who have been there all night supporting you to be bumped by someone coming in the last hour.  I would only sing at the beginning of the round as long as there was not a long line up.  If there was a long line up then I might throw one in every other round.
I've seen alot of good KJ's go under because of the way they do their rotations.