Karaoke Forums

Had to edit....

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Jerry, all good points.  When I try to give constructive criticism, I do it based on my LIMITED knowledge of the subject matter only. While being VERY aware of that which I do not know, and even stating this !  and this is important.  It's not about being absolute, there is NO such thing in subjective genre's... Face it. My opinion can never be impinged. Often-times I SHOULD keep my mouth shut. Here's an example,  TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL no less, yet for the sake of this discussion perhaps analogous.  Let's take Bob Dylan.. Great composer, and lyricist.. Many would give Bob Dylan straight 10's... Does that mean he's a fabulous vocalist ?  Not in my opinion, yet he is an amazing lyricist and composer...Big differences. What good would it POSSIBLY do for some small person like me to say

"Bob, That lazy sounding signature style you've settled for in terms of singing your material isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the pre-birds early 1960's vocal ability you displayed, stop howling around the pitch like a dying cat with a sinus infection, try nailing a note on pitch for a change, and stop wandering to the pitches hinting around them (and btw....mention that to your wannabe buddy Tom Petty too)"

(and no, above example IS NOT how a critique is actually given) 

YOU KIDDING ?      Our opinions aren't facts...There are those in my genre that to me sound like they are nailing WAY too many 9's and 10's for it to be possible... Usually I will say, I think your level of ability and musicianship exceeds my own ability to critique you.. It's not easy to give an honest critique..and yes, in a friendly fun venue such as this is there really any actual place for the critique ?  Especially in public ?

Jerry, one other point,  I think there is a natural tendency for *ALL* of us to initially feel abit "knocked down" when we get a true critique.... First emotion I feel is "WELL EXCUSE ME", especially when my friends are telling me the truth about something, yet that's *MY* ego, and it must be transcended.... A person has to let that natural ego-mech pass, and take what you can use, and leave the rest..... (as they say).. The true critique isn't telling another to do something that would ever exceed their ability, that's all taken into consideration.... NEVER an easy area...It requires skill, and training of your own...

OK,  I'm done now.... (yeah right)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I suspect nobody REALLY wants honesty.. We all are pretty much aware how we sing.. I think it's sad some have to try and bring you down.. for no reason..

A member here (back in time) bad rapped everyone and kept claiming he was the answer to Gods prayer..

After quite a bit, he actually posted a song.. Sad to say God Effed up.. It was horrible.
Yet, some gave him  good review.. even tho it was clear, skill was lacking..

Some others, angry at his abuse of others, took the time to berate him soundly..
I may have joined in that orgy of emotion, not sure as I was drunk that day..

Anyway, reflecting back, I regret doing that, as it served no purpose..

My .02

I don't post comments because most can't handle the truth if their performance is less than desireable.  I know it's karaoke & you are suppose to be supportive (which I am - don't get me wrong), but if someone is asking for HONEST opinions, it generally doesn't happen because nobody wants to hurt someones feelings, they just continue to say "Nice Job!".  
There was one in particular a couple years back, i'm sorry he couldn't hold a tune in a bucket - yet everyone gave praise & the couple that didn't, he had admin erase them.  He's no longer at this site anymore however.
<edit> I think it's possibly the same that JD was talking about...

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You can do like that Geico commercial

Wife  "Does this dress make me look fat?"
Husband  "You betcha!"
Wife  Disgusted look & storms out of room!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Everyone sounds much better live anyway. the recordings on SS dont really do any body real justice.
without all the right mixers , compression ,mixers and LonMans Knowledge. keith , karyokiers, and Allstars soldering skills and tinkering, it's a trick to get a real decent recording. the pro's have pitch controll machines that keep them on key and other thing's that meke em sound good.

I know every sub I put on there sucks compared to a live performance.
but Id rather say that myself than read it from someone else.  so I just sub under "J" ....Just like my Girl Charmin

I never knew this.  I knew you could change pitch with the control, but I didn't know they tweaked this note by note to edit the final studio cuts... Sounds as though some of these vocalist's go thru as  much "touch up" editing as the model's on GQ and COSMOPOLITAN go thru airbrushing..I never knew there was a device that compensated for "off-pitch" individual notes while singing. Is there ? Or do they just edit individual notes with a pitch wheel on the recording device prior to releasing it on air or album cut ? While I'm aware technology has all sort's of devices to tweak just about everything with..If there's a device that compensates for off-pitch singing during live performance, I never heard of it..(or recall it)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Most definitely they can edit word by word - note by note (if needed).  They obviously try to get as much of a "real" take as possible, then they go back & multi layer certain areas or "punch in" bad sections & whatever is left that needs fine tuning, then they can advance it to the computer into Pro-Tools & finalize the take digitally.  Which is why half these new singers of today - SUCK live or sing (or rather "lip-sync" to pre-recorded vocals.
As far as live performances, yes there are devices that can "aid" not FIX off key singing.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't know about the subs.  I don't claim to be God's Gift to Karaoke either.  But having somebody there...especially when you're trying a brand-new song...that you can honestly ask if you should keep trying that one or dump it, is PRICELESS!!

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[glow=white][scroll]Live, laugh, and love today--just in case tomorrow doesn't make it[/scroll][/glow]

Had to edit....

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

check it out at TC Helicon the product is voiceworks. I have one, and it can do wonders. I can set it up for a certian key, gook a guitar to it and bend the string, it will never change the pitch. Kinda an amazing tool. and all this for less than $600.00

I have never used it for a sub here, I feel it isn't fair. But I have used it at Karaoke, and suprised a few customers when their song actually sounded good.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Between that Helicon device, and a voice synth that enables me to punch in a Burton Cummings preset, Maybe I will sub in SS after all.

I wonder if TC Helicon is affiliated with T.C. Electronic's, makers of the guitar stomps that cost an arm and a leg back in the 1980's.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I have a brother who will do just that. Heck, Don does it for me too. (and Don can realllllyyyy nitpick, hahaha) But it's nice to know from the start if a song is just a "No go" for you.
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-Charmin

Hey Charmin ~
Out of curiousity, give me an example of my nitpicking compared to my regular
everyday nagging.  LOL   And hey everybody, all of you have a lot more courage than I do when it comes to getting up in front of an audience and singing solo karaoke.  I still don't know how you do it!

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I do agree for the most part, but when someone might be asking for an "honest" opinion, this is when it gets sticky because people generally do give the "good Job" or "that's great" type answers giving the person that wanted to really know what other thought a false image of their singing.  It's the same in contests.  These people are told by their friends that they sing great when in fact they may be mediocre at best, then they enter a contest & wonder why they lost.  Sometimes an honest critique can be MORE helpful for one that might be trying to improve their voice or singing overall.  
I always give a "great job" to anyone that comes up on stage - it takes guts just to do so!, but if the ask what I thought, i'll tell them what I liked or disliked or if they should even try that song again.

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Yes.. I agree with you ... Lonman.  If someone has asked for "honesty" .. that is what  they should receive.  Unfortunately, history has proven... at sites such as this... that being able to give a truly "honest" critique takes skill... and most here simply don't understand how to give "constructive" critism.  I have found that those that try to be "honest" ... by pointing out areas that weren't well done or could have been done better .. tend to do so in a rather "negative" fashion... rather than in a "constructive" fashion.  

For instance.. "you did a really nice job on the chorus portion of the song, however, I noticed that during the first and third verses particulary on the line ______ there were a few times when you seemed to lose "pitch" and those lines sounded a bit flat.... however, with those exceptions I think you did a decent job with the song and I enjoyed listening to you".  In my opinion this is "constructive".  

However, around here... I see people nit-pick .. "you were very flat on the line ____ in this song... especially on the words ____ and ____ and this reoccured during each verse that had that line.  Your recording also sounded like you were in a tunnel.  Overall, I give you a rating of 4-5 "low-average to average".   I don't think this song suits your voice either.  

I may be wrong, but someone who has tried hard... could probably "handle" the first critque better than the second.... and not walk away feeling horribly embarrassed or wounded.  

This is why I said in my post above that if someone really wants HONEST .. they should probably go to someone trained to critque ... or at least to someone who's opinion they value highly... and it should be done in private.  

And yes.. we too always thank our singers at the end of their performance!  It takes a lot of courage to get up and sing in front of a crowd.  And if one of them asks me what I thought ..... I WILL tell them whether I feel its a "keeper" or not.  Again though.. as you know .. much depends on how that message is delivered.... as to whether someone gets offended ... or appreciates your comment.  

I definately support those that want honest critique to request it ... but perhaps thru email or PM.  The rating scale here is neither valid or reliable as it has no real "definition" for what each term really means. ... and as far as those that listen and comment around here .. in most cases... they are not comfortable publically critiqueing someone, nor do most know how to do so "constructively".  

Again, Just my  :2cents:  :2cents:  worth!  :yes:

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Cindy, My feeling's are this is why the word critique shouldn't be used at all HERE.. Assuming someone opts to give a critique, they aren't wrong by the dictionary definition which means to scrutinize. Those of us that have been on either end of the college type critique, might find it less unusual to attempt this here assuming we walk in cold, listen, and see that another person supposedly want's a "Critique".
It's an incorrect word here.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Just makes me wonder - maybe a poll, but as a singer, would you want people to keep telling you "great job" & give you a false impression of your actual capabilities or would you want real (sometimes brutal or mean as described) critisism of how they think you did?  

Going to engage a poll now.

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