Karaoke Forums

Ah, couldn't resist jumping in on this thread thats been 'flogged to death'.  I have been singing pretty much all my life, fun fun, for money, at weddings, in competitions, I have found that singing is a strange thing.  Let me give you an example, some people can draw / paint / sew / build things etc.... get the picture and some people flat out can't and given the task this becomes very evident (count me among this group !). However singing, some people are actually horrible, tone death, couldn't sing their way out of a paper bag, but for some strange reason they think they are really good, when it is very evident to all around that they really can't.

If people really want to be critiqued, I PM them privately. I have found that people don't like to be 'told the truth/facts' in public, so everyone else can see it.  I think for the most part people come here for fun, I know I do !!!

Luv Di xxx

CCindy,  You know it's not "If you're tough on me, I'll be tough on you" ,  It's NOT like Singer's Showcase has witnessed yet when done correctly, You have more skill in this area than perhaps most of us... It's not "retaliatory critiquing",  or "They were tough on me, I owe them"....It's an honest process as you know....I think those of us that HAVE been thru numerous critiques, and have had training in various area's of the art's might be able to set an example that this isn't a black or white process..... I think there really are people in here that think a critique really means... "That was awesum" OR  "Dude that really blew chunks".. EVEN if we are to keep it positive, and just point out what we *LIKE*, and what we feel the strong point's are, it's better than saying nothing about the person's submitted work when they post in a "C" category. and  positives are still constructive... We can collectively decide do's and do not's, so there needn't be anticipatory concerns....If people want to give 10's, that's fine, yet my feeling is if a person post's in a critique category, and you give them a 10..My feeling's are it's probably tougher to critique the "10", but I'd never give a 10 without telling the person why I think it's superior..It's easy to give a 10...It's more helpful to tell the person why you liked it so much, and what about the performance excelled... We should probably discuss how we wish to go about this, certain guidelines.... A few of us know one-another so we have a fairly good idea as to how sensitive those we know are...Yet it might not hurt to just go about it lightly in public...anything else can of course be PM'd.. If we give some idea's, and perhaps lead thru example, and make it fun, we might be able to somehow turn this around.... There are a few that want critiques, yet just about everyone now has a bitter taste in their mouth regarding what critique does, is, and how it's necessarily a slam.... If I take the time to just tell you what I found really good, MAYBE that's how we can turn this "critique" nightmare around...I just think that those that put their work up for critique deserve some type of acknowledgement of not just THEM, but their submitted work...You might have some idea's as to how we best start out Cindy.. I'm all ears...

If we address progress made, something positive, what we liked, and particulars of the song...It's at least taking the time to acknowledge their work..To me "10 all the way" say's little... Addressing why it's a 10 say's ALOT...What were aspects that stood out the most for instance ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

very well said, Kap.  where'd you get all those brains?  and are they still on sale?

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All work and no play make Homer something something

Prod,   75% off now

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I have to disagree on the PM.  This could also help teach people what to be listening for.  If someone says that was great, but here & here was a little flat, that could help someone listen for themselves at those spots & try & hear what the other person was hearing - or not & then give THEIR opinion stating whether they thought the same or not.  Also mainly why I don't post comments, I mean EVERYONE is giving raves reviews on obviously not so good performances, I don't want to look like an (@$%&#!) stating that there were some parts that need working on.

Don't get me wrong, I do know what you are getting at as well.  But if someone checks that box when they upload for rank or comments, then they should be prepared to get honest feedback from listeners.  If someone legitimately enjoyed the performance, then say so, if they didn't, then say so.  If they don't ask for rank/comments, then there is no harm no foul, they are obviously singing for fun.  Even in the poll I started, as of today nearly half voted that they would like honest critisism (or go ahead & comment, I can take it - basically worded differently for the same effect).  The other half say they sing for fun & don't care - which is cool too.  Karaoke is all about fun, however some people want to know where there weak spots are.  
I used to have a song up a long time ago that I knew wasn't great, but everyone gave the WOW, & AWESOME statements, that wasn't real, at that time I WAS looking for, hey you may want to try a different vocal variation here, or different key suggestion or eewww, don't try that again - but ALL the comments were as if the performance was perfect, so I deleted it never to post my singing again.  I figured if I can't get honest critique from a board that I knew no one, then why bother?  I can get that at any karaoke show.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Well, If Jeanne or someone starts "A DETAILED CRITIQUING AVAILABLE" thread, then when you listen to someone who has submitted in the C category... You can acknowledge that you've done so ... and that if they'd like any specific details about what you liked best ...  they should post a request in the thread.  That way... you've offered ... and the ball is in their court.  

I agree... we definately need to find a way to make this a positive experience ... and a "learning" opportunity for those who are TRULY interested in that kind of feedback.

Whatcha think???

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

You bring up an excellent point, Lonman.... the concept of others being able to learn how to "listen" for certain things that otherwise they might not have heard.  I too agree with you regarding no longer posting for critique.  I did a small sorta experiment when I joined the site.  My first "mission" was to try to listen to as many singers as I could.  I just listened.... didn't leave comments or rankings.  I definately had to smile at times... to see some folks had received 9's or 10's when in fact... they were more at the 5 or 6 level.... around average... maybe a bit better than average... but certainly no higher.  I got a sense of how the "ranking" community "thought".  Then.... I began to post.  My first posting was in the for fun category.... and let me tell ya.... EVERYONE raved.  Then... I followed up with a song I know I sing well ... and I had done a very good job recording.  I got an average ranking of 9.5.  I thought... hmmmmmmm..... I'd have given it a 7 tops.  So... I then subbed a song that I have always loved to sing, but its a toughie for me.  I did a strictly AVERAGE (5-6) job with it.  My average ranking for the song ... 8.5.  So... what did that tell me?  First ... it told me that people DO hear the differences .... but that they won't give a "true" number equivalent.  It also TAUGHT me a few things ... 1. I am a realist.... I knew the scores were inflated... BUT some had left some specific comments regarding sections that I too felt were in need of work.  2.  People, in general, don't like to tell someone else anything bad...even if it is "asked for"... 'cause its really hard to do.  I think people, basically, want to be nice.  3.  I have to admit.. that while I KNEW I had "asked" for it... there was one person.. who totally tore me to shreds.... and guess what.. I got embarrassed... and felt slightly hurt.  Not to the extent that I would EVER retaliate... but it was tough to have that kind of comment available for public viewing... valid or not.  So... now I only sub for fun... and I have a fabulous time with everyone.  I know my strengths and limitations... and the numbers here are a reflection of people just being the nice folks they are.  I can't find fault with them for that.  Kinda hard to critize a person for being nice... ya know?  
But.. I do like what Jeanne suggested... and I'm more than willing to participate.  But again... this will be available for public viewing.. so I hope people are prepared.  Steve feels starting things with the "positives" is a good way to go.. and I think thats a great suggestion as a starting place.  I guess we'll see how things work out.  
So Lonman... will ya post and then ask for the comments in the "new" thread???  

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I agree Cindy.  I'm all for it.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

i agree with all comments, i have always wanted nothing but honest critiques, i don't feel i have ever subbed a 10 on here, i just don't put the time into it,  if i hear something off i'll just say the heck with it and sub it anyway,  but i have to say and this is the hard part,  an 8 to me might be a 9 r a 10 to others,  kinda like painting, beauty is in the eye....as in singing....there was 1 guy on here i heard sing a song that i have sung for years, and i do an ok job on it, but i heard this guy sing it and he blew me away, in everyway, but others thought it was very good but not all that...i'm thinking the whole time...my god listen to the guy, he's awesome....but they weren't to impressed...so i just figured they were ALL wrong and i was the only 1 right...

i would love to have honest critique from anyone, if its a 2 r a 10 i don't care, just tell me why it is what it is....TO YOU...my ears aren't what they use to be, so i need all the help i can get....so if u like u can critique the songs i have up now i did put them up  for that purpose, rrrrrr u can wait till i sub another song r 2....i do trust all here, and you don't have to be gentle, just the truth as u hear it is all i want...

and i'm sorry steven i thought u said u wanted to buy my bvd's not my cd's..    :whistle:  if that be the case the price is lower....

as far as jeanne goes, she has to have the prettest voice i have ever heard, now iffff she would just believe that....THE END

You're confusing two different conversations we had.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

So or you saying u want a dvd of my bvd's?  ya'll started that thread yet?

Those attempting to help other's always take this into consideration. Last thing I know I'd EVER want to do is kill someone's love for music, or music as just their  hobby. The goal isn't "to be good" for everyone, ultimately for the vast majority that's of little importance. Singing and music is something that's therapeutic for many .For others just a casual hobby, yet most ARE here to have fun.  The purpose is ALWAYS to try to help a person get what they want out've the experience, not be sadistic. I'd never attempt to comment on a person's work if I didn't have a decent idea of their current ability level; Plenty of hobbies I have that I suck at, just about everything that I first try I suck at too...Difference being, if I ask for Criticism, I don't chastise those that take the time to give me thought out constructive comments, because in actuality all I was prepared for was a bunch of gold star's, and roses...Assuming all I wanted was for people to tell me how great I was, WHY would I post in "C" ?   That makes no sense. Yet many that don't want a critique, continue to do-so.

The problem here isn't that those that want to have fun, and get a 10 ranking (despite their actually ability level) are getting those ranks, of course if they are here for fun and fantasy, and they want a 10, and to hear just praise, they should get praise from those wishing to placate them.

What's wrong here is the conflict, and lying this is creating for those that ask for honesty, and CAN handle it. THESE people don't deserve to lose out because of the less mature individuals that are exploiting the "C" category by insisting it remain "fluff"...Those that have NO business posting in the Critique category are making it extremely hard, if not impossible now for those that are mature enough to know what THEY want out've this experience to get honesty (or genuine feedback in Singer's Showcase).. Noone can assume that because a person post's in "C" they are receptive towards the Critique, In most cases that's proven to be a lie..As a result those that state their need's, and want honesty are getting lied to.  That's @$$-backwards IMHO....

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Now I've got to concentrate...decisions, Let me sleep on it, I'll give you an answer in the morning !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

ahhhh, meatloaf!  what a great  singer!

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All work and no play make Homer something something

!!!!  WOMAN  !!!!

Yeah,  If I had a nickel for everytime I heard, "That Kappy, She's like all my other Bi^@hes, I'd be able to afford   Well,  I'll think up something, just give me some time !


Yeah Steve,  (Prod is Steve, Billy...  I'm not talking to myself this time), Meatloaf really could convey emotion when he sang, quite a dramatic voice.....Two out've three aint Bad...was pretty dang good IMHO...



Here's some trivia.  Anyone know who this guy is ?


MARVIN LEE ADAY

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Billy, I'm getting the M-audio delta 1010, and a new M-audio semi-weighted controller... Now I can go to paltalk, and get 86'd for playing chopsticks while you're singing  Ebay is also really good for buying PA speaker stands... They sell a pair for the price MF, AMS, and Ash sell a single speaker stand for. Can get a pair of either the Ultimate support TS70's or Onstage thingies for around 45 bucks (of course I didn't check out S&H yet)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Meat Loaf was born Marvin Lee Aday (Now Michael Lee Aday) on September 27th -
sometime between 1947 and 1951 in Dallas, Texas.



I agree.. NOT much to look at... but a voice FULL of emotion!  


Then again... some would say this too is a good pic of him....


Regardless of what you prefer to look at .. after looking at all of these pictures.. I'm voting on the last to SMELL best.  

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

We all looked like that around the mid-1970's CCindy !!!   As to how many survived with the capacity to remember to shower between that time, and the present is questionable of course !


,  I'll take the edible stuff, and his voice !   CCindy, He doesn't know when he was born ?  I can understand him having a LD and mistaking his identity for a food, after all there was another guy who mistook his wife for a hat, and he did go thru the 60's and 70's,  but Meatloaf doesn't know how old he is ? but he knew he was born sept. 27th ?  No wonder he can't lie, he can't tell us that he's something he's not, No matter how he tries he'll never be able. But maybe I can talk all night, but this aint getting us nowhere, I told you everything I possibly can, there's nothing left to type I fear. I found a Gold rope necklace on a Sandy Beach, but there aint no Coupe deVille hiding on the bottom of a cracker jack box !   Good night !... hehe...  Just as well that I probably can't sing...

I get all lyrical when I haven't slept,  or is it hysterical ?    dunno.... later dudes and dudesses !!!

Come to think of it,  that's not a bad idea    I was born in January sometime between 1955 and 1970 *from now on*  :hug:


.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]