Karaoke Forums

That would be great Jian..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Jian, What Rod Stewart is doing here is rhythmically VERY difficult.  The phrasing of the singing he does is found typically in Western Jazz, and utilizes a type of counterpoint.. Here you have what appears to be a steady duple meter song, An even 1-2-1-2 beat, yet the vocals are layered on that even meter and form a type of counterpoint, meaning the lyrics have a melodic structure of there own, which can VERY easily throw off the singer. The two rhythms, backing, and vocals don't always work beat for beat in Jazz,  so the singing uses serious of what's called hesitations. You aren't going to know when to enter the body of the song here with your singing based upon this even tempo of the music itself...You must REALLY know this song, before improvising with such rhythmic complexity, and layering it onto an even Rhythmic backing such as this one, he does all sorts of stuff here such as entering the vocal part slightly off-beat at times. He weaves and sings in and out of the even meter..  This was too difficult for you I'm afraid. Have you ever heard the Beatles rendition of this Song Jian ?   You got quite lost here I'm afraid. Jazz is tough for most.. You need to build up to this level of singing, and rhymic complexity

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Now I know why i find those songs dang difficult. I dont quite understand what you are saying about the time thing but whatever it is yes, those are songs that are beyond me. I have been listening those songs maybe more than a few 100s time. still I just can't do it.


I stick to classic rock  LOL

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Funny thing is Jian, ALL musicians have area's where they might have a tough time..Jazz takes ALOT of abstract understanding,  I can't manage Reggae, and an excellent guitarist for some weird weird reason couldn't get the Rhythm to Stairways to heavens,  "and as we wind on down the road" part,  It made sense to noone really, but we all have area's where we are weak.. Don't try to tackle the jazz standards yet Jian, MANY have a tough tough time with those.  I think for starters classic rock & Ballad is a reasonable choice.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

My inability to do those songs may be due to my inexperienced in singing as a whole. I am still new to singing. I tend to do songs that other don't do in karaoke. I don't normally sing songs that others (in the place that I normally sing) do. This keep me branching out to seek new songs and thus new genres. Perhaps in a year or so I will be better in jazz.

We have a genre  that near to jazz; referred here as Melayu Asli (original Malay genre). when I first sing them, I was off by a mile, tho I know those songs. After weeks of trying I gave up. About 6 months latter I tried, got the same result but nearer to 'good'. The 3rd try I was still not confident to sing those song in public. Then 6 months latter I manage to do it. now when I sing those classic I had all eyes focused to me. That was in a span of about 2 years. Hard work but I got there.

That is why am still the Badsinger; cos I sing songs that I dont realy know well enough.  LOL  LOL

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Hey,  You've never heard me sing...  You're a 10 compared to what I can do !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Not at all Steve... I've just had a really crazy couple of weeks.  A very close friend found her 38 yr. old son .. and father of four daughters ages 4-12, DEAD.  This is the same friend who lost her husband to cancer in 1989, and her youngest son... then 24 ... 9 yrs. ago to a motorcylce accident.  Needless to say ... She's been in need of my time, attention and support.  And of course, I've been working ... and it's been pretty hellish at work lately too.  

I'll be around.... YOU didn't discourage me at all ... just want to be able to give this stuff the attention it needs ... and haven't been able to do so lately.  

Hugz to everyone here!!  CCindy

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

CCindy, so sorry...that's got to be hell.... Real life first....this is WAY back seat to real life of course...

Of course most know this,  people like me haven't caught on yet.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Cindy, of course your friend needs you now. And what an awesome friend you are to put everything aside to let her lean on you...... hugs girl, I know that's gotta be rough for you too. My heart goes out to your friend. Let her know you got friends online (atleast here in Oregon) who are thinking of her & sent up a prayer already for her peace of mind.  :hug:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I see you submitted "The Sky is Crying" Billy...  You do damn good blues !..

This particular song didn't open for me, yet I heard you do it elsewhere... fabulous job too...

I probably wouldn't bother critiquing stuff like someone doing the blues, unless they were trying to learn the style as a student or something... Blues is an individual thing...Singing from the heart alot of the time, putting their own spin on a style... I'm in no position to critique "Blues" anyway, very individual... depending on what the person is going for is up to them...Blues is one of my styles, and I have ALOT to learn about it even still !  I think the real blues-greats would consider me a hack and a poseur...  I keep my mouth shut and just enjoy trying to play it  

JMHO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I believe they do.. Yamaha has a keyboard that does karaoke, and even corrects miss-typed keys as you play..

Guitar too..

I'm looking at google now.. I know I saw it  at CES..  :wave:

Well, When the art field develops a program that can grab my hand, and force me to dip a paintbrush in certain colors, also make certain I paint within exact boundaries, I suppose I'll be able to call myself an artist.  Or will I ?

This is the thing..  IF the worlds prettiest people are touched up, and air-brushed because pretty can't exist within the non-touched up realm, it must be super-human; If musicians don't need to have talent, they too can be touched up, and the goal is perfection, or better than humanly possible in most cases... Is it any wonder so many end up with low self-esteem feeling they must be perfect to be accepted ?
This stuff isn't natural, it's not talent, it's not real IMHO...

What about talent in the arts, skill involved ?  and "what's real" in area's of aesthetics ?  Cheating is "in" I suppose!   and that's sad..  It's nice when talent counts for something, same with hard work, and people liking something YOU actually present.. that isn't dressed like a manakin and embalmed..

I'd rather watch that Milli Vinilli act lip-synch. At least that takes some talent..

I suppose I'm somewhat of a "purist"  LOL ,  I'd rather not see everything computer and technically enhanced.. I'd like to know that artist has some skill too..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm sure you have seen the ads on TV for the computerized teaching system for singers..

I saw that a CES too.., I was impressed..

It shows on screen where the correct pitch is, and where you are singing..

I found it quite amusing..  Yes, I tried it.. And not that bad.. I won a cigar..  LMAO

True Jerry,  The same technology can be quite a valuable ear training tool... No question.  I'd rather see the artist use it that way of course.  If it helps us to learn and recognise relative pitch, that's great IMHO...

When it comes to a recording however,  I'd like to hear musicians,  not digitally corrected and enhanced musicians..  This type of thing confuses me I guess, It's sort've like going to an art exhibit, and than finding out the artist had someone else mix the colors on his palette for him because he's color blind, and than he painted by numbers...Just detracts from the results IMHO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Absolutely,  In fact the only way *I* can learn is by listening to the things others might not agree with.  I know for instance that a huge limitation I have, is that I'm basically quite conservative in my listening. I'm VERY uncreative.  I wouldn't recognize innovative genius if it were in front of me.. I've heard creative renditions of classics I know, and I've thought that they were excellently done.  Yet if something entirely new comes along, I'll just go "huh, what was that"


Usually I listen to a cover and use the original as a general schematic for what the singer is trying to do. Yet this brings up another excellent point you brought up Billy.

I think a few days back you mentioned something regarding "What is the singer trying to accomplish, what are they attempting to do?"

This is REALLY important to take into consideration..  Outside of listening for pitch, tempo, dynamics, balance, expression, I shouldn't assume that because a person is singing a specific song, they are trying to "Sound like" the original.  Thing is, I wonder if I were to ask many what they were trying to do with the song, if they'd know ?  I wonder if specific questions should first be asked regarding this area. I assume (although this is wrong to do) many would say, "Dunno, I just really like this song and wanted to do it"...So does that mean I should compare their rendition to the original as a general outline ?  Or should I ask "Are you trying to sound like the original" ?  Interesting point here... We are dealing with such a vast area of western music styles..That perhaps a person doing the critiquing should just listen for rudimentary aspects of a composition such as the VERY basics of a composition, and not get into opinions on style.. I don't know, this brings up a good point.  The subjective nature of all of this.  Should the singer ask for specifics, so the critique doesn't end up coming across as being too nebulous ?  Or would many feel that in not having boundaries set on the critiquing party, the person can listen more freely and be more objective as to his/her opinions ?

I'm trying to snoop around, just to get an idea of how others that want critiques, or attempt to exchange tips interact. I found this site somewhat interesting.

http://www.writersblock.com/cgi-bin/yab ... =vocal_411

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I found this very interesting. Although inexact as to format of critique, it does give some pretty interesting guidelines.  This is posted in a description over at the "Muses muse" site.  Which is a site where people are trying to help one another with song lyrics, and compositions etc.

This is how they do things.
 


GUIDELINES FOR POSTING:

1) Please only post one song per day.

2) Please post 2-4 critiques per each posting of your own songs. (If you don't critique other songs, expect people to IGNORE YOU! This is not a "pat on the back" forum. It's a place for people to get constructive criticism about work they're genuinely interested in improving. You need a thick skin, and you need to PARTICIPATE by doing more than just posting your own song. Help out your fellow participants and you will, in fact, be helping yourself).

3) Indicate what genre your song is for. This will give people a better idea of the goals you might have with your song and will avoid confusion.

4) Let people know if you're after an in-depth critique. If you're not, don't say anything. But if you really want people to go to town on your lyric - if you're after constructive criticism that will really help you with improving it, please do say so. You can add that into your thread's "description" field when you first post.


5) PLEASE participate in other areas of the board. I realize that for some of you, this forum is extremely important - and I think that's great! But there are other forums too. Spread your wisdom around, hmm?  Become a participating member of this community.

6) If your message becomes a personal attack on anyone, expect it to be erased. This is a LYRIC critique board - not a PERSON critique board.  Keep your messages and your replies on topic.

If we stick to these simple guidelines, we'll all be a bit happier - and more able to keep up with the volume of songs posted.



Check out item 4...

Basically, assume everyone is sharing unless otherwise noted

From the Muses Muse site


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(I think the part about a "thick skin" is really good to keep in mind,  the thicker your skin, and the more you allow people to tear into your music, the more honest they will be with you, and assuming people think you can handle taking abit of a possible ego flogging, when all is said and done, the advantage of being told that was so-so today, is that somewhere down the road if alot of these same people say, "Now that was excellent", you can believe you've made progress.  If people are afraid of hurting your feelings, you won't know the truth... Makes perfect sense)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

hi my friend, yes i think for all singers atleast for me anyway, i go about each song differently, my moods r different from day to day and so r the songs, most r 1 r 2 takes but that doesn't mean i'm not singing it my best, r that i'm a great singer, its just that most times thats all it takes for me, granted  again, most time i should have a few more takes, but again i get bored and i lose the feeling for the song i wanted to convey, so i quit while i'm ahead....i heard u talking about Jazz, i have never tried jazz, for that i'm sure i would spend all day trying to get a song, love to try one someday,  as far as the Bee Gees song goes...it was fun and different for me,  i asked for a critique just to see what u would say on that song, my best? heck nooo, but it let me know u were honest in ur critique...truth is i didn't hear what you heard,  what i heard an attempt to try to sing that song. no more no less, but then again i knew what I was after before i started singing it....but thats ok,  if i heard everything u did, why ask you...... you brought out things i afree with but didn't hear, other then basic's i didn't know what i was listening for....

but i do think asking a few questions of the singer before critique might help both,

#1  were you singing this song for fun r were you doing it the best you could?
#2  were you trying to make the song your OWN ?
#3  are you sureeeeee you want this critique? good r bad?
#4  what  r you expecting from this critique?

thats just a few questions,  i feel once a person answer's a few questions it would help YOU out alot in where u go with ur critique.

haveing said all that i still feel that ur listening for things most don't think of, like my song, when u said it would fit well in a movie, now why in the would would i be thinking of that? ......but you did....plus other things....i don't feel you give urself enough credit, your very good at this....

NOTE......i didn't say you were right, just that ur very good at it.......kkkk...
take care

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

ROTFLMAO
 :rotflmao:

now THAT was the epitome of subtlety... heheheheeh

(charmin is cracking me up) heheheheheh  LMAO