Karaoke Forums

Rob, show me the backside....... of that bill......and throw something for her to catch.....

If  only all $ bill have those pic; then I won't spend my money.  LOL

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I'm moving to Canada.    It's full of fun money.....

Canada is smart !  They figured out how to increase the value of their currency.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

OK, back to the referral thing.   Rubber chicken guy comes in 1/2 hour before I quit.   He was probably out drinking FREE water at some other fine establishment.   I picked up the books at 1/4 to 12, done at one.   I was totally booked up.    He comes up and they all want to sing, told him no way too busy..     He's with the tap water drinkers.    They are regulars of his.   5 of them that want to drink free water, ALL NIGHT.   He tells me not to forget if I get sick, give him a call to fill in for me.    

Since I'm a total idiot, I'll let you make the call.    Should I ever refer him, knowing he comes with the FREE water drinkers, as a total package?

as was pointed out to me by some other kjs, the water drinkers aren't your problem... that's the venues. (unless of course you're a venue owner yourself! !)

The solution to water drinkers is to sell bottled water!

The question was, should I ever refer him to another bar to fill in or hire steady knowing he has the steady free water drinkers as part of his following.    He's my problem if I refer him.   They will want to question my ethics.    

I vote for no referral.    One more thing, I've never heard him play out.

What would you do?

Last item.    They take the empty water bottle to the restroom to refill it.    You need someone johnny on the spot to pick them up as soon as they set it down empty.

Have you ever heard him KJ ?  Is he a decent KJ ?  That has a bit to do with whether or not he'd be a decent referral. At least he has a following. Perhaps the fact that they are sober, is an indication that he's tolerable to be around, and the drunks would like him even more. Who knows ?  You refer a person based upon his job performance... If he brought crab-lice into the bar,  It might be best to not knowingly refer him.  Of course I can think  of quite a few bars around here I'd gladly refer the carrier of crab-lice to,  but hey,  it's just the kind of guy I am !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The places you refer to, have a bouncer on the sidewalk throwing people in the joint.   Because nobody voluntarily goes in.    Bodily harm is threatened, if you try to leave.

hehe,  yeah,  these are the places the charge you a $10 cover charge to leave. That way they "protect" you when you try to make it to your car to lock the door. They make you an offer you can't refuse. Assuming you don't take them up on it, next time you might wanna think twice about coverage.  :shock:

Alot of these places are relatively safe if you don't ever make eye-contact with anyone, or look like someone they hate.  If you are willing to buy the bar drinks all night, they are easy to get along with too !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The bar can sell all the bottled water they want.    These people have MT pockets.

If he's good, he'll also attract those that spend money.  The fact that his following doesn't support the bar doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. Two separate issues IMO.  If he's good, they'll make money on the other end, a draw that does spend some money.  When you get alot of people you do get the duds, but you also get those that spend.. If the bar management get's sick of his following, let the bar manager deal with it.  At least he's got people in the bar.. If they like the place it often does more good than people that don't come, word of mouth referrals etc.

You can tell a bar owner,  you think he's OK, but he pulls in a water drinking crowd... Let him decide for himself. At least you're giving him a lead.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It never bothered me if people don't drink. I've never had a group that everyone
didn't drink. Usually people who don't drink have friends that do.
I am a non-drinker, but when I am in a bar I buy others drinks, eat their food, play pool and shoot darts. Seldom do I see someone who comes in completely by themselves and only drink water and not spend money some how. If someone is that into karaoke they will bring their friends to hear them sing and chances are one or two of them will drink.

If by chance this guys crowd is 30 people who don't drink, eat or play games I'd be surprised. Is it possible - sure. If this is the case, I'd refer him only if he was an excellent KJ. I would think that if it's a bar it will attract drinkers.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Babs, to give him credit, I've seen scenarios like he's talking about. Where a whole CROWD are non-drinkers (I actually like to call them non-SPENDERS), as you've so well pointed out that there's other ways to support a karaoke venue. Buying food, drinks, tipping well, etc.

For the water drinkers, they can be a pain. But it's up to the venue owner to put their foot down on policy. Granted, we kjs can help. And I can see the sense in non recommending someone who's only crowd appears to be non-spenders.

However, my recommendation goes into how well the kj does their "real" job, which is for karaoke. How well they make the folks sound, condition of equipment, skipping media, favoritism of customers, etc.

Non-spenders are the bars own problem.  I've worked enough places that didn't charge for refills or water, coffee.... & then they wonder why no one is spending money - "YOU AREN'T CHARGING THEM!"  Fountain sodas are by comparison one of the biggest profit margin in a bar when charged properly.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yeah you're probably right. I'm sure I'm just a little defensive because I am a nondrinker.


I get my drinks free when I work. The only reason I drink water and coffee is
the pop is horrible. The bar buys crappy pop because it is cheaper to put in mixed drinks. I always wondered if he'd spend more on better pop if the nondrinkers would order it more. I always wondered too if they'd sell other nonalcoholic drinks if it would fly. I know I spend $3 or more at Star Bucks when I go.

Probably not because I do know in a bar I am the minority.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Yeah,  They made out quite well on my Diet Cokes, and Coffee's when they wanted to.  If they gave me the refill's free.  I just left 5 bucks at my place when I left.  Now-adays, with the DUI law's not sure how many are buying 6 or 7 drinks in a few hour time-span anymore.  They can make money on soda, virgin Mary's, Coffee... Yet I'm sure liquor laws have cramped the days of buying one shot after another, chaser's, beers, etc etc....Two-fer's aren't allowed in CT... Last call a bar isn't allowed to serve a person two shots... One drink at a time now...  Unless it's a bar on a college campus where people walk, there's usually a driver in a group that must take at easy, and not swill all night. So liquor sales can't be what they were in the 70's, and early 80's pre-DUI

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

There are 3 separate issues here.

1. The referral.   Let's forget that.    I'll never hear him, because I'm never off.

2.  (a)    The people that follow him, started to follow me a few years ago.    One sings really well, two sing some what not so well. (I suspect the 2 husband & wife, have a somewhat limited mental capacity, I'm trying to be very sensative about this.   The other lady takes some kind of medication for her muscles or something, but she has to go home to take it, so it must wipe her out.  She seems OK except for that.)    They started to follow me, because I let them sing in the rotation just like everyone else.   They have told me this wasn't the case with other KJs (Jerks) and now they like and respect me.   (Now maybe this is why the other KJs didn't let them sing.)    They are likeable enough, always treat me good and I them.    He drives everyone, so maybe he has more capacity than me.    LMAO    They all, demand.... tap water with lemon.   The owner doesn't appreciate them taking up space for free, when she has paying customers that want to sing.   They also use the restrooms.   Free water is not free.  We all get a water bill.    It's never free.    Plus a sewage payment on the water used.  It's not just a glass full of water.   It turns into gallons, plus the lemons the barowner buys, the ice that used electricity and the bartenders time, that the bar owner pays for.

  (b)    Other bar owners might not like the fact that [highlight=crimson]I [/highlight]sent them a bunch of free water drinkers.
  (c)   Steven, Someone that doesn't drink and leaves a tip doesn't help the bar owner pay for entertainment.   It just helped the tender.    They aren't going to give it to the bar owner.   Therefore you didn't help anything, except the tender.
 
3.  (a)   I play here 2 nights.    Wednesday isn't the problem, so much as Sunday.  Sometimes they come both nights.   Sunday she wants to base my pay on the cash register. (Her idea, not mine)    This is the Sunday night oldies that we started not too long ago.    Until it gets to be high enough revenue, then she'll pay full price.   If they don't pay for drinks, it hurts her register, which hurts my wallet.    I told her to do whatever she has to do with them.   They have gas money to get there all the time.
    (b)   Hey.... That's it......If I refer him, that takes care of my free water drinkers problem.    

You're correct, I did pay for my soda and coffee however,  If they didn't want to take the money, I just dropped it on the counter for them, I didn't want them to resent me sitting at the bar...  I know the owner, we've jammed a few times... He kept trying to get me to come in, we'd chat about guitars, and bands...I also ended up helping at the door.. I was friends with the family around here,  I don't feel right going to most bars now-adays because I can't drink... I was the only one there that wasn't young enough to be his grandchild, and I'd sit around and chat with both he, and his son... The reason I tipped the bartenders was so they didn't totally hate me... I'd think nothing of paying 10-15 bucks a night on coffee, or soda... It's all I can drink.. For awhile I was getting Moussy, and O'douls... It was sort've crazy,  I was paying more for the NA stuff, than most were paying for beer. If I liked the taste of it, that would've been fine.  I was more popular than "Young Al" anyway.  Young Al used to hog a bar stool nursing "Grasshoppers" all evening, talking about how many he is, while flapping his green lips...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Cordless mic"s are the key!  How many people have you seen sit in the back of a crowd and not sing because they do not want to be the center of attention?  Learned from the best.  I was one of them at one time.  And if they feel they do not sound good, they won't get up.  Let them listen!!!!!!  If you have great mic's, let them sing where they are comfortable, (hiding or whatever) make them feel confident that they will sound good, and if you make them happy, they come back!
Isn't this what it is all about? Keeping the crowd happy?  Whether they re good or bad, ENCOURAGE  them!  Make sure you acknowledge them over and over.  They continue to follow, you keep your happy crowd, and the bar owner keeps you.  
We are all here to make money!  But pleasing everyone gives us the opportunity to do that.  When the owners are happy, SO ARE YOU!  You continue for years at an Establishment!
Machines, 2- (keep music coming) Cordless Mic's, Patron Pleasing, Bar Owner pleasing, is where it all comes down to keeping those nights .  
You have to feel the crowd, big or small, consider their wants, (each table or bar stool has a specific want), non the less they all go out for fun!!!!!!
Listen, Watch, and pay attention to YOUR crowd of Junkies.  They make you your money.
We are ALL the best!!!!!  
We entertain, young and old, rich and poor, but we all have fun!
That is what makes Karaoke our business.  It is somes livelyhood.